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Thai Price vs Farang Price: Historical Hangover or Modern-Day Discrimination

Dual pricing (Thai price and farang price) has long been a subject of contention among the expat community.

While most holiday makers probably don't realise a dual economy exists, even though they may pay up to a third more than a Thai would on many items in tourist area, the large majority of expats grumble at paying more for goods and services than locals.

And this is totally understandable. I mean, once you’ve lived in a country for five or so years, you’d expect to be treated like a local, right?

dual-pricing-in-thailand

Multiple (dual) pricing evolved from the barter economy. (Image Credit: Samuel John Roberts @ Flikr)

It isn’t just street stalls and local shops that operate a dual economy, either. Many museums and national heritage sites stipulate dual pricing on entry, which is never usually more than a hundred Baht’s difference, but enough of a difference to make one feel discriminated against.

However, the reality is that outside of the tourist hotspots, purchases from local markets are generally priced the same, unless you know the owner personally. But when it comes to museums, heritage sites and other attractions, foreigners are usually expected to pay more.

But before we spout off about Thais being racist and how unfair it is, it is important to understand why a dual economy exists, and how it is potentially beneficial to some Thais — even though we might lose out at times.

A Sprinkle of Historical Context

The first mistake Western critics tend to make is to compare the evolution of Thailand's economy side-by-side with that of the UK or US, for example.

Thailand's capitalist economy as it exists today is very immature, and is often referred to as a pseudo-capitalist economy that presents itself as such but operates quite differently in many pockets of the country.

In fact, many of the older generation still alive today will have grown up in a rural barter-type economy. Indeed, my wife's grandmother did.

She still talks of swapping goods in her childhood and people lending their skills to each other in exchange for food and household essentials.

Only one hundred odd years ago the majority of the male population in Siam (Thailand) was in the service of court officials, while their wives and daughters may have traded on a small scale in local markets. And only at the end of World War 2 did Thailand's economy truly begin to become globalised.

Also consider that Thailand has not experienced the immigration and subsequent “multi-culturalism” that Europe and the US has. In comparison, Thailand has very few foreigners, and trade laws and the buying of land and housing is still very restrictive for foreign nationals.

Thais still very much do things the “Thai way”, and in the way they see fit.

And yes, for many this means ‘preference pricing', which, by the way, is not restricted to foreigners. I for one get my fruit cheaper than other local Thais because I am friends with the seller. This is a friendship built over around five years. That's how things still work here. Communities are very much localised, even in a big city like Bangkok.

Money Vs. Feelings

The fact that the difference between the “Thai price” and the “farang price” is usually quite small — certainly for entry to heritage sites and museums — suggests the grumbling is more about feelings that money.

This is understandable. It is a feeling of being discriminated against, a feeling that no matter how long we’ve been in the country we will always be treated as, and identified as, foreigners (“farang”).

On the face of it, this differential treatment is prejudice, and I’ve even heard some liken it to 50s America and the preferential treatment of whites over blacks. But the reality is it’s nothing like that at all.

The dual economy is born out of simple economics. Nothing more.  If you believe that the elimination of dual pricing would promote integration, and give expats more “status” as citizens of the country, you’re living in a alt-left dreamworld.

This might sound harsh, but if you think you’ll ever be anything more than a “farang” to most Thai people then you should go home now to avoid further disappointment.

In the same way immigrants are just immigrants to most in your home country, to the average earning Thai, you are just another farang with a fat wallet that allows him/her to live a privileged lifestyle in a poor country.

Thailand is a great place to live, but you and I know we’re never going to be considered citizens of the country in any way, even if we went through the hideously long process of obtaining residency.

Thailand is historically very insular. This has promoted a unity of deep national pride, patriotism and self-identification with flag and country. Anyone outside of that will always be “a farang”.

I point to the words of the Thai national anthem: The land of Thailand belongs to all the Thais, Their sovereignty has always long endured.

No matter how well I understand Thai, no matter how long I’ve had a Thai partner, no matter that my child is half-Thai and no matter how many Thai friends I have, I am, and always will be, a farang. And this is a classification I accept as part of being a foreigner living in a foreign country.

I can’t roll up to Doi Suthep temple in Chiang Mai and say, “Can I pay the Thai price to get in because my wife is Thai?” Or, “Can I pay the Thai price because I’ve poured countless pounds into the Thai economy over the last seven years”. No, because I am not Thai.

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An Ethical But Contentious Reason for the “Thai Price”

The reality is that dual pricing has evolved with Thailand; its existence is a natural one that evolved from the market/bartering culture — as it has done in numerous Asian and Middle-Eastern countries. Friends, family and regulars tend to pay less. It's quite simple.

The same is true in some countries of Europe. Ever been to Italy? Go to the market with a local and I guarantee you will get that handbag much, much cheaper! See Greece for reference too.

Where entry to attractions and heritage sites is concerned, it has to be considered that the pricing is based on economics and not prejudice. The average wage is less than 10,000 Baht a month, and most Thais are earning little more than 300-400 Baht a day.

So, let's say I want to take my wife and daughter to a museum on the weekend, and an average earning Thai guy wants to take his family too. If I earn 150,000 Baht a month, and he earns 15,000 Baht, and the entry fee is 300 Baht for adults, he needs to spend more than a day's wages for an outing that every father can easily afford for his family.

In short, I don't mind if his and his wife's entry is subsidised by the government and that they only pay 100 Baht each to get in.

Who would have a problem with that?

Who would have a problem with paying a little more than someone else because they earn 10x more, if it meant their family could enjoy the same social outing?

If I am asked to pay more than the average Thai for entry to certain places because I earn more then I don't mind — if that little bit more is kept at a reasonable ratio.

I am privileged to be able to afford to live here and consistently enjoy myself in nice hotels and swim in the waters of beautiful beaches, and to visit amazing temples and see wonderful landscapes.

The majority of Thais will never be able to take such a holiday in a foreign land. In fact, the majority of Thais have never visited the beautiful islands and wonderful corners of their own country.

So I don’t mind that I pay 100 Baht more for entry to a museum, or 50 Baht more for a t-shirt at the market by the beach.

As a resident (I don’t have official residency) I am privileged to live in a nice apartment, and to be able to afford to eat in lovely restaurants and enjoy all the city has to offer. Again, way above and beyond the means of the average Thai person.

When I say the average Thai, I am referring to the 17 million Thais who earn under ten thousand Baht per month, most of whom, according to a recent bank survey, are in debt to the tune of an average of 150,000 Baht; debt that continues to grow at between 6-20% depending on the mood of the debtor’s loan shark.

Even the lowest paid expat jobs in Thailand massively outweigh the average Thai wage; so should we continue to grumble and begrudge those with very low salaries access to museums and local attractions at a discounted rate?

When we complain how unfair it is that a dual economy exists, we should think for a moment: do we want museums and places of cultural interest to solely be accessible to foreigners and middle/upper class Thais by there being one price for all?

Are we happy to stop the kids of an average earning Thai family going to the places we like to visit just because we feel discriminated against?

Or do we want it the other way around, where everyone pays the “Thai price”. That way, we, along with the Thai middle and upper classes, get to clasp even tighter onto our purse strings, a solution which would no doubt contribute to lowering the wages of those working for state-run museums, national parks and other places of interest.

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But What About Foreigners Who Earn Low Wages & Rich Thais Who Get Thai Price?

The big problem with the above is that there are lots of well-off Thai people who get the Thai price when they can clearly afford to pay more than the average foreigner.

But then we can’t dismiss 17 million other people on that basis, can we?

So there has to be a better way.

In a country with such huge inequality, there are sectors of society who do need a discounted rate on goods and service.

Most families can't even afford a trip to the cinema, or a take-away pizza.  There is no social welfare system to speak of — no food stamps, no child benefit. Though there is a good 30-Baht health scheme.

It is also problematic for those foreign nationals who earn very little too. I was shocked to see that some of the agencies on my job board were offering such low wages to Filipino teachers. They too, like most Thais, would struggle to live on such wages in Thailand.

So that begs the question: Could this whole dual pricing thing be solved with a simple card scheme?

For example: If you earn under x, you get a card that entitles you to y at a discounted rate. y being entry to national parks, museums and other places of entertainment run by private companies that could sign up to the scheme too.

Thoughts Going Forward…

I have never bought into the notion that dual pricing is a prejudicial war on foreigners. It is something that has been evolved and become outdated. In rural communities and market trading circles it has historical roots in the barter economy — as it does in many other countries.

Things have levelled out somewhat over the past few years, though, and vendors often make a point of telling customers (Thais included) that it's “same price” for all.

But where market shopping in tourist areas is concerned, a deal can usually be struck outside of the given price on most things. And would we want that aspect of tiered pricing to disappear? Many tourists enjoy this aspect of holidaying in Thailand.

In the immediate term, if you live in Thailand and want to avoid paying more than the locals, you should definitely  learn to speak Thai so that you can engage with sellers in their native language.

By making a little effort to learn the language, you’ll be able to bridge the gap and integrate more with the local community. You’ll be able to strike up a conversation and ask for “Laka con Thai” (Thai price).

Think how you feel about foreigners who don't bother to learn the language in your home country. If you live in Thailand but speak no Thai, how can you expect to be perceived as anything else other than “just another foreigner” enjoying the fruits of the country but with no interest in learning the language?

Back to the main point of disgruntlement though: Prices have been creeping up for foreigners over the past few years, with entry to some historical sites at least 2-3 times the Thai price. This has to stop; simply because it creates ill-feeling, and because not all foreigners earn 2-3 times that of the average earning Thai.

I suggest that the authorities get rid of dual pricing and look at creating a scheme where access to museums, national heritage sites, local attractions and some other goods and services are provided cheaper to those below a certain income threshold.

This will enable poorer families, both Thai and foreign, to have more freedom; to take the kids out to events and activities on the weekend.

It would also enable poorer families to save more money. And who knows, one day they may be able to start a pension, send the kids to university, or at the very least enjoy a holiday to the beach in their own country, or a trip to the cinema once in a while.

Updated: September 2017.



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  1. Richard says

    So here I am sitting outside the frost in Pattaya whilst my wife and daughter are inside. Their price 300 baht , mine 650. I refused to pay it and will always refuse to pay. I work and live here, earn my money here and pay my taxes here. Even upon production of a work permit it's still 'pay foreigner price'. So they have lost my money and I'll always refuse to pay it. If this happened in the West then I'd be furious of my country..
    Reply

  2. William says

    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is a good quote here.. Call it what you want, apply whatever excuses you'd like. It's still a discriminatory practice, regardless of whatever excuse is used, excuses are like butts, everyone has one, and they all stink. But honestly, if it bothers someone, they should just not spend their money there and move along to somewhere else. Very simple fix...
    Reply

  3. David Carroway says

    Poppy Cock! The prices frequently exceed 100 Baht. You are wrong on your facts. They can be up to 1000% or more. Do this to a Thai in your country and you'll find yourself sued out of existence. You know absolutely nothing!

    And your explanation has so many holes -- you could fly a 747 through them. First, why do other Asian people (notably Filipinos, Khmer, Chinese etc. etc.) get the Thai price? The answer: a white face. It is racist in enforcement. Second, While I would agree that a government-subsidized company would have the right to offer tax-payers a discount, how does this apply to private enterprises? And Chinese owned amusement parks etc.? Third, many of the privately owned venues will not give the Thai price to resident taxpayers of white extraction.

    You've taken the stupid pill -- poor Thais. Poor Thais. They have a larger economy than Norway.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      I don't agree with recent price hikes at heritage sites and national parks, but my main focus of the post is local economy. To which you said: First, why do other Asian people (notably Filipinos, Khmer, Chinese etc. etc.) get the Thai price? The answer: a white face. It is racist in enforcement. This is incorrect. Chinese tourists do not get the Thai price, believe me. But I do get the Thai price at many places. In fact, the lady at my local fruit stall gives me a cheaper price than Thais she doesn't know, or know that well. In fact, on a number of occasions she has delayed telling me the price in front of the thai person, choosing to serve me after instead because she doesn't want to pee them off. This is the old barter style economy, or dual pricing as foreigners call it. I know her personally. I buy every week. I speak to her in Thai. I chat with other members of her family. She gives me free fruit for my daughter. This is how it works in Thailand. Build your bridges.I'm not "poor Thais. Poor Thais". I've been here long enough to know the dynamics of Thai society. I read and study Thai history and culture as a hobby. If you've read the post you'll note that I point out that it's very difficult to make a fair system that is adjusted to low-income people because it can be exploited by richer, middle-class Thais who will expect to pay the same.Admittedly the title of the post is provocative -- it's meant to be as a way to open the debate. But if you read the post you'll see there is a balanced argument for both sides.
      Reply

      • Ken says

        Sometimes I really think I need to disable these e-mail alerts - at least for this particular subject, as its been done to death. After all, if I don’t see the alerts then I wont be tempted to let myself get dragged back into beating this dead horse. And that’s just what I was about to do again. Well, actually I was going to give someone a verbal ass kicking. But then I got to thinking: if these people are so determined to hang on to their petty anger and bitterness, then who are we to try and rob them of this. After all, anger and bitterness are all some people have to hang onto in life. And if they did not have these imaginary injustices to rage against they seriously would not know what to do with themselves. I think the rest of us should just be thankful that we are laid back enough to not sweat the small stuff, and secure enough in ourselves to not constantly see racism where none exist. And lets face it, going through life being so uptight (like you know who) can be incredibly stressful and it really doesn't make for much of a life.
        Reply

        • David Carroway says

          To Ken: Because you didn't respond meaningfully, I can't say much. Go ahead, give me your 'verbal ass-kicking.' If folks were treated this way in Western countries, there would be hell to pay. Full stop. And thank you so much for allowing me to hang on to my imaginary injustices. Keep taking your stupid pills, Ken. When they toss you out of your window one day, those pills will come in handy.
          Reply

      • David Carroway says

        To Ken and The Thailand Life,

        Thank you. I never expected a response.

        To Thailand Life: First, I did read your entire post. All of it. And I read it before I posted. Your economic argument was not convincing and you were wrong on your facts. Primarily, there is often a difference of far beyond 100 Baht. If it were 10 Baht, then the economic concept of rational ignorance would kick in and nobody would really care, would they? I went to Siam City Park not too long ago. The park is largely Chinese-owned. The Thai price was 300 odd Baht. The Foreigner price was 1,100 Baht. In line before me were two Filipina gals and I was with my girlfriend from Laos. The girls in front of us were speaking loudly in their native language but -- as I observed -- got the Thai price upon speaking a bit of accented Thai. My girlfriend (from Laos) got the 'Thai' price but they insisted I pay the 'foreign' price. I politely refused and told my girlfriend to go in without me. Then the girl at the counter said, "คุณอยู่นานแล้ว" and directed me to another window where my foreign girlfriend paid the 'Thai' price ticket for me. But that was an underhanded, face-saving way of going about it.

        Our experiences are different, that's all. I find that the dual pricing system is racially biased.
        Reply

  4. Jon Grah says

    Does this blog post include situations at official gov't offices like immigration where foreigners (particularly western foreigners) are expected to simply pay an express fee to get regular documentation done (e.g. retirement or marriage extensions of stay)? It goes beyond principle here, as now you are dealing with something you HAVE to do to legally stay in the country (register a vehicle, etc).

    A foreigner in this case feels 'trapped' in this case. Especially if they have invested >2 million in some home or other things. It seems like these fees are priced just high enough for the official to get something out of it, but just low enough for the majority or foreigners (or a good portion) to just say f**k it, pay and get on with their lives.

    or is there a separate blog for that (e.g. corruption)?
    Reply

      • Jon Grah says

        Chiang Mai seems to be particularly disgusting in how they are implementing a rather limiting schedule policy....some 20 extension applications max per day, some people queuing up from 3-4AM. For a routine extension? Oh, but if I have 3k baht, there is an instant slot open. See here.One couple I know now is dealing with this in Chumphon shortly after a new boss took over. They had the same paperwork as last 5 times (years), but now they made them wait like 45 days or so (they came in 30 days early, and then put a 30 day consideration stamp).They were offered an express option for 3000 baht, but they refused. And of course front/back copies were no longer accepted, so they had to recopy a lot of things on separate pages.Previously, it was a 15-20 minutes to walk in, process the extension, and go. No further 'consideration' is needed for retirement extension as the local immigration office can process it. Marriage extensions are processed in Bangkok with very few exceptions. ------I don't mind if there is an express option. The keyword is OPTION. But people who have the correct paperwork (not arbitrary rules paperwork) and just want regular service should just be able to pay the regular fee without any additional hassles.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          This is unacceptable, and strange that they are treating people in this way. It's hardly a way to encourage people to move to choose Thailand as a long term stay or for retirement. If there's an angle to make money, someone will do it. But like you say, this shouldn't affect standard applications. This is also happening at the VFS Global visa centre that serves UK/AUD/CA visas. They have introduced fast-track services that effectively push applications to the front of the queue and push standard applications to the back of the queue.
          Reply

      • David Carroway says

        He has never encountered anything. He's a [insulting word removed] who thinks defending the poor Thais (because of his wrong version of economic history) means that ripping the rest of us off is all good. I've been here since 1997. Spare me the [swear word removed], mate.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Hi David, I have removed the insulting comment and swear word from your comment. Please refer to the terms of the site regarding insulting behaviour. I respect your right to an opinion and as I have always done on TTL encourage healthy debate, so please respect that of others and refrain from insults.

          Please also consider the following from the terms:

          My thoughts and opinions naturally change with time. I consider this a necessary consequence of remaining open-minded. In light of this, any thoughts and opinions expressed within dated posts may not hold the same, nor even similar, opinions to those I may hold today.

          I’m a human, and this blog reflects that fact. By this I mean that while the ideas, thoughts and information are often valuable and the product of my first-hand experiences, the writing itself may be spontaneous, un-proofed, unrevised and corrected only when necessary to address mistakes that grossly affect the intent.

          Thank you for your co-operation.
          Reply

        • John says

          If you don't want dual pricing stay away from typical tourist areas in Thailand or go to shops with price tags like Robertson,Lotus Tesco etc
          Though I have noticed that most of the time there is no double pricing
          at the local markets especially when you speak Thai .
          Often the foreigner gets a better price than Thai people like getting a hotel room I always get a better room price than my Thai girl friends how is that possible ?Even my current Thai wife for 4 years she never got a beter room price than me and non of the other Thai girls I traveled with.( they didn't mark up either the price lol.)
          Foreigners should learn to speak and listen Thai than you will find out it isn't that bad it always help to say I want discount ( pom tong can lot)
          often you will get a beter price than the local Thai person because Thai people love foreigners who try to speak Thai there for they are willing to give you a bit discount .
          Concerning the double pricing of the national parks I have to say that is bad for the imagine of Thailand .
          Often the sales person of the tickets feels very uncomfortable about it if you point out the price difference its a bit loosing face .
          Because they don't expect you to read the pricing in Thai numbers .
          1.Don't start to write the Thai price in Thai numbers it gives many people a bad taste in the mouth
          2.If Thai people visit the national parks with their BMW's ,Mercedes and Ducati motor bikes from outer state they have to pay the same price as a foreigner .
          (easy to check look at the number plates )
          Those Thai people have more money to spend than the foreigner backpacker who travels around on a shoe string budget !
          I could live with this solution .
          But remember you do have a choice you don't have to go there if you think its unfair or outrages expensive etc..
          Keep in mind Thailand is a beautiful country and there is no need to go to those national parks with their double pricing .
          There are a lot of foreigners who do pay a lot of tax in Thailand why should they get a different pricing ?
          Reply

  5. Steve says

    Actually I completely agree that it's just Basic economics and I don't mind paying a bit more than Thais even after being here for 15 years.

    My issue lies with extremely inflated rates . Example Khao Yai , last time I was there Thai 35 baht. Foreigner 350 baht that's not a small increase thats 10 times or 1000%. Even though 350 baht is still not a large amount of money .

    The second fact that does iritate me
    Is that they are not transparent about their price differences as they write the Thai price in Thai number characters that they presume we can't read. That in my opinion is deceitful if you wish to charge more by all means do so but be transparent about doing so .
    Reply

  6. Brian says

    More than a bit surprised to drive across Ubon province last weekend for some nature hiking with the family at Soie Sawan waterfall of Pha Taem National Park. Thai price 40/20THB (adult/kids), Foreigner 400/200 --1,400THB for our family. We turned around and left. I haven't minded the two-price system but this small attraction is nowhere near worth it. I have to imagine that most falang who have hired transport to get out to these remote sites feel stuck to pay it.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      That's a big difference when you have a family and certainly unacceptable. I've not come across this in rural areas very much. For example, I visited the dinosaur museum in Kalasin and it was free for me and the Thai people I was with. Such a great place too. Really interesting models and information. I hope we aren't going to see a trend of places hiking prices in the way you experienced.
      Reply

    • Ken says

      I have to admit that price seems pretty outrageous to me as well. But is it really? In my own experience I have found that tourist attractions in Thailand are generally priced based on what we would expect to pay back home in our own countries for similar attractions rather than what we would expect to pay in Thailand. And here in the USA it would cost you $30 (1100 Baht) to get your family into Yosemite or Yellowstone National Park. Of course this price is per vehicle so if you only have one other person in your car then you are obviously paying quite a bit more per person than if you have 4 or 5 other people in the car.

      I think what makes this particular fee seem so outrageously high however is the huge disparity between the Thai price and the Foreign price (which is not how you should be looking at it). After all based on our respective economies I would normally expect the Thai price to only be about 3 times less expensive and not ten. But perhaps the government just wants to make sure that even its very poorest citizens can enjoy the natural wonders of their own country. And in any case I never think of the prices in terms of how much cheaper they are for the locals. I only think in terms of how expensive it is for me personally. In fact, I prefer to think of it in terms of how much I’m saving due to the fact that my Thai girlfriend can get in cheaper. After all, in your own country when your kids tickets to some venue are cheaper than your own you do not get angry because you have to pay more for yourself than for them, but rather you are happy that you can pay less for them. It’s all in the way you look at it.

      Still, you might possibly be right about the foreign prices being jacked-up in these places because they know people will feel they have no choice but to pay an exorbitant price after traveling all that way to get there. But then again, this is pretty much standard practice in every country on the planet. For example, the snacks and drinks in movie theaters here cost about 3-times more than they would cost outside of the theater because they know you have no choice but to pay. And if you take your family to Hurricane Harbor Water Park here in California you will first have to pay $20 for parking, then $40 for each adult and $30 for each child to get in. And then once inside you will have to pay nearly $20 for a locker to keep your valuables safe. When you add in the outrageous cost of food in the park you will probably end up paying at least $250 for the day. What a rip-off!

      And of course not all attractions in Thailand seem to be cheaper for Thais. I remember the last time I went to Chiang Mai to visit my girlfriend’s parents we borrowed her sister’s motorbike and rode up into the mountains to do some hiking. Then on the way back to town she wanted to stop by the Tiger Kingdom because, like me, she is a huge cat lover. Anyway it seems to me that I had to pay the same price for her although I’m not entirely sure. Then after leaving there we saw a gun range and I thought it might be fun to teach her how to shoot a handgun. Unfortunately we both thought the prices were WAY too expensive. In fact, it’s 3 to 4 times more expensive to rent a gun and shoot off a hundred 9mm rounds in Thailand than it is to do so here in the USA. And I never saw any Thai pricing and the attendants never mentioned a cheaper price for Thais even though they new I only wanted my Thai girlfriend to shoot (I had my own 9mm back home so I didn’t need the practice). It was probably for the best anyway because the guns looked like they had not been cleaned in ages and I’m not sure how safe they would have been.

      Anyway, as I have said in the past, I think the main reason dual pricing irritates some Westerners is because it reminds them of the fact that they will NEVER be considered to be natives no matter how long they live in Thailand. If you live in a country like Thailand or Japan you are always going to be a Farang or a Gaijin even if you’ve been there for 30 years. In other words you are still just a visitor and will never be one of them. And lets face it when you are from one of the most powerful nations on earth and you are used to strutting around like you own the world it can be hard to accept the fact that you are now merely a second class citizen at best (sorry if it sounds like I am disparaging my fellow countrymen). But I for one am perfectly okay with this.

      Sure, this stuff used to bother me when I was younger. For example it really irked me at first that to rent an apartment in Tokyo I had to first find a Japanese person to be my guarantor (to take financial responsibility for me should I cause any trouble or run out on my rent). Luckily my company was willing to be my guarantor though because I would really not be at all comfortable asking a Japanese friend to do that for me. And this all seemed particularly unnecessary considering the fact that in Tokyo at the time you were required to pay the equivalent of two month rent in key money and another two month for a security deposit, plus first and last months rent - a total of six times the monthly rent to move in. Plus you had to pay $500 for a phone line and you had to buy all your own appliances and furniture.

      And then there was the fact that very few landlords would even rent to foreigners to begin with. When you go to the real estate office they will show you fact sheets on various apartments and on the back of each sheet there are three sets of “yes” or “no” check boxes which the property owner has checked off. The first one is for pets, the second for children, and the third for foreigners. And believe it or not both children and pets are both much more likely to be allowed than foreigners. “How can this be?” I thought to myself at the time. How can a cat or a dog be a better tenant than me? After all, I’m completely toilet trained and I don’t have any sharp claws to scratch up the floors or walls.

      In any case, I stopped being bothered by these kinds of things a long time ago. When you move to a foreign country you cannot expect them to change themselves just to suit you, but rather you must adapt yourself to your new environment.
      Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        That's a good additional point, regarding how cheap it is for your GF/wife to get into an attraction. Even though I might have to pay more, my wife and daughter will pay the Thai price so the price as a whole is massively cheaper than going out in the UK. I was in the UK recently and took 5 people out for coffee. Three people had a cake as well. It came to 1000 Baht! We didn't even see any good attractions, just some nice plants. A day out at a theme park or exhibition, including travel and food, is going to be a solid 100-150 quid!I think it does jar most people at being "the foreigner" all the time. Being singled out as the foreign guy, regardless of how long you have been in Thailand and the extended family you have adopted, is a bit of an insult that most find hard to swallow. That said, one commenter above said that all you need is a Thai driving license to get around this price difference, so perhaps that's the way forward. The prices will keep creeping up no doubt, and new tourists will keep paying them, I guess.
        Reply

        • Ken says

          Yes, I also read the comments about getting the Thai price by having a Thai driver license and I found this very interesting. After all, if true, this would mean that the discount is based solely on residency and not simply on race or citizenship as I had previously thought. And as I mention before this is exactly how it works in Hawaii - which is why I got my Hawaii driver license the day after I arrived there. Of course in Hawaii the discount applies to hotels, restaurants, and many, many other kinds of businesses, and not only to government run operations, like museums and national parks.

          Anyway, in the past I have never come across dual pricing often enough to really make it worth my while to run out and get a Thai driver license. If I end up retiring there however I will certainly be getting my Thai driver license and will try to take advantage of those discounts.

          Of course, I am personally bothered much more by overpricing in general than I am by dual pricing. For example when I was last in Phuket the beach chair rental price was twice what it was in Pattaya at the time. And this difference can really add up to a lot if you and your girlfriend are going to the beach nearly every day (as much as 4000 Baht extra a month). But I can’t blame the vendors for this. They are simply setting prices based on what they know the typical Phuket tourist is willing to pay.

          As for the UK I have never been there myself but I understand that living in London is just as expensive these days as living in San Francisco or New York City – two places that I could never even begin to afford to live.
          Reply

      • Tide Swell says

        No, it is NOT a simple solution. It is a bandaid solution to a problem which needs major surgery.
        Why is it a bandaid solution?
        (a) we are not told that the production of a Thai driving licence in order to secure Thai entry fees is an "official" policy;
        (b) even if it was an official policy, I would bet it would be left up to the attraction management - or even the person in-charge of the attraction or the cash point, to implement it. If that person did not want to implement the policy they would simply ignore it; and
        (c) such a policy does not address the issue of visitors to Thailand, (or Westerners who live in the country), who cannot produce a Thai driving licence. In the case of the latter, nobody has shown me, or convinced me, that any other proof of residence in Thailand will secure payment of the Thai price.

        No "thethailandlife." have the cojones (which is not an expletive) to call this practice for what it is. Racist, venal bull you-know-what.
        A means for an avaricious section of society to exploit people on the basis of their race and the colour of their skin.

        And please, spare us the sanctimonious claptrap about "my dear, sweet, little old lady from whom I buy my fruit charges me less than she even charges Thai people because I kiss her.....
        Or "I don't mind paying 10 or even a 100 times what a Thai family have to pay if it means that a poor Thai family get to visit an attraction which they could otherwise not afford."
        Or "I read, write and speak Thai," (yeah, sure you do) and "I read about Thai culture and history," (yawn, yawn).

        We are not interested in such twaddle.

        I repeat; call this insidious, divisive, venal, racist practice for what it is.
        Reply

    • Ken says

      You just reminded me of the fact that we have something very similar to Thai dual-pricing right here in the good old USA - namely in Hawaii. In Hawaii they have what is known as “Kama Aina” pricing. Basically this means that Hawaii residents can get discounts on various services and products such as hotels, restaurants, etc. And all you have to do is show your Hawaii driver’s license to get the lower price. And this of course is not “racist” in any way because, just as in Thailand, the discount has nothing to do with ones race but rather has to do with who is a resident and who is not (or a citizen in the case of Thailand). So basically visitors to Hawaii pay a higher price for some goods and services than locals do.
      Reply

        • Tide Swell says

          "I've never come across this express fee when doing an extension. Where is this happening?
          Any info would be useful."

          Why would it be useful? Useful to who? You? Don't make me laugh.
          Just what, pray tell, would YOU be able to do about this practice - assuming it is true?

          Oh, and the word is spelt "dinosaur" btw. Invest in a good dictionary.
          Reply

          • TheThailandLife says

            You are quick to point out a typo but seemingly lack the intelligence to put forth your points without aggression and insult.

            If you read the post in full you'll see that I don't say I agree with dual pricing in principle but rather seek to broaden the debate beyond the simplistic, common narrative that it is simply "racist".

            I can only assume that because you don't understand the dynamics of Thai society and its social constructs that you are unable to digest my points and debate sensibly with an open mind.

            You might also take a moment to consider my disclaimer:

            My thoughts and opinions naturally change with time. I consider this a necessary consequence of remaining open-minded. In light of this, any thoughts and opinions expressed within dated posts may not hold the same, nor even similar, opinions to those I may hold today.

            Bear in mind that this post was written over 7 years ago; a lot has changed in Thailand and in my experience since then.

            I understand that many people become infuriated by the title, so much so that they don't bother to read the full content of the post – which is a shame.

            I accept that it is clickbait to a degree; obviously I did this on purpose at the time and it attracted a lot of views because of that. But those who do read it in its entirety tend to appreciate it for what it is: a post that opens up a debate beyond the usual black and white opinion – whether they agree or not.

            I appreciate you taking the time to post your comments, and I encourage people to share their views if they disagree with me. But I won't tolerate abusive, profane or rude comments that don't bring any value to the subject matter. Second warning issued.
            Reply

  8. Michelle says

    It's racism, it's backwards, it's greedy and it's discriminatory. No wonder Thailand is poor. Because who would invest big money in a country where the system is bias in favor of the locals and discriminates against foreigners.

    They do the same thing in China and Hong Kong and probably other countries.

    I'll never get over it and never be happy with it.

    Thailand will never be a wealthy country.
    Reply

    • theguest says

      Thailand is no way poor compared to other surrounding countries. Dual pricing is quite common in Asian countries, and it's certainly here to stay. It's part of the system, and it's the norm. Generally speaking, Thailand does actively discriminate against foreigners both in daily life and in legislation, and that is how it is. As a result, they don't inherit many of the problems of the west, and foreigners are tightly controlled in every aspect of life in Thailand. That saying, it hasn't stopped tourists from coming to the Kingdom. Next year (2017) an estimated figure of between 25-30 million tourists will visit Thailand, one of the highest in the region.
      Reply

  9. Søren viking says

    Dude , you are forgetting a very important fact:

    Its a economical thing you say, poor people have to pay less, and rich people have to pay a lot more??? what about the wealthy Thai people With big fancy car and everything, that can walk right into the Thai line and pay 1/3 of the price too, while I, a low income retired farang have to pay 3 time as much . Get real dude . it is pure and simple racism. And it pisses me of in a a degree , that I prefer to spend my retirement somewhere else. PERIOD.
    Reply

    • Ken says

      I can’t believe that this silly debate is still going on. I swear I haven’t heard this much whining and complaining over such an absurdly trivial matter since I was a kindergarten teacher. But here we go again I guess.

      I suppose I could start off by getting into the psychology behind why certain types of people get so insanely upset over dual pricing in Thailand and even mistakenly think of it as “racist” in nature. But I’m afraid this would only serve to piss off half of the readers and bore the other half to tears. So instead I’ll just concentrate on the policy itself and these most recent comments.

      The first misconception that we need to put to bed once and for all is this silly notion that dual pricing is somehow racist. The fact of the matter is the practice does not meet any known definition of the word “racism”. And this should be so painfully obvious to any intelligent, rational person that I am not even going to waste my time trying to explain it here. After all, if some guy tries to tell me that a cat is in fact a dog, or that the earth is really only 4000 years old, I’m not going to waste my time and energy arguing the point with him. Because to do so would just leave me flustered and stressed out and would accomplish nothing in the end. You simply cannot reason with an irrational person so there is really no point in even trying.

      So, dual pricing is most definitely NOT racist. But what about being discriminatory? This one might not be so open and shut, but lets see.

      The definition of “discrimination” reads as follows: “The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex”. So what does this mean exactly? Does it suggest that perhaps car insurance companies are discriminating against certain people by charging different rates? After all, I can be charged more for being a certain age or sex, for living in certain cities or certain parts of cities, or even for being poor. So, even if I am the safest driver on the face of the planet I am still being judged based on my group. This certainly doesn’t seem fair at all, but is it really discriminatory?

      Of course not! Insurance companies do not have a crystal ball which tells them how good a driver I am so in order to stay profitable they have to play the odds. And this means that I have to pay rates that are in part based on the collective driving habits and abilities of my group. This may be inadvertently somewhat prejudicial but it is certainly not “unjust” seeing as how it is necessary.

      By the way, the Thai government also does not have a crystal ball, and charging people based on their individual incomes would be a bit absurd. Can you imagine standing in line a museum waiting for each person to have his net worth determined somehow? It doesn’t take long at all to determine who is Thai and who is not though. And foreigners belong to a group that, on the whole, is vastly more wealthy than Thais are.

      Anyway lets look at another scenario. Let’s say that I decide to start charging visitors to my house a small fee to use my home phone or to use the restroom. This would definitely make me a major league tightwad and a very weird guy. But would I be discriminating against my guest by charging them simply because they are not members of my household? Of course not! After all, I would have nothing against these people and I would not think I was somehow superior to them. I would just think that, as guest in my house, they should pay for what they use. And let’s face it we are ALL merely guests in Thailand and can never be citizens.

      So, if dual pricing is discriminatory then one could also make the argument that even being required to have a work visa to work in Thailand is discriminatory. Certain things are always going to be required of you as a visitor to a country that are not required of natural born citizens of that country. That’s just the way it is and there is no point crying about it or in developing such a persecution complex that you somehow think you are being discriminated against or are the victim of racism.

      And just what are we talking about here anyway in terms of expenses? I spent over a year in Thailand all told and the total amount of extra money I had to spend during that time on dual pricing was exactly 160 baht. Now for me to get all bent out of shape over such a small amount I would have to have a fairly large stick crammed pretty far up my ass, don’t you think?

      Anyway, I simply look on those extra expenses the same way that I do the fees I pay to renew my visas. In other words, they are just the normal expenses of being a guest in someone else's country.
      Reply

      • Ken says

        I just thought I should point out that my comments are never meant to put anybody down in any way. I sometimes use very colorful expressions when debating a point but its all meant in a very lighthearted way and this is actually the same way I talk when sitting down and debating an issue with a bunch of friends. We might call each other “crazy” or “full of it” at times but its all meant in good fun and nobody gets upset. When writing however one has to be very careful because, as nobody can see your facial expressions or hear your vocal inflection, it very easy for things to be taken the wrong way.
        Reply

        • David Carroway says

          No Ken -- You write endlessly to defend a principle that is indefensible. In America -- where I presume you are from due to your [INSULT REMOVED, WARNING ISSUED), is it acceptable to one nationality more than another?IT IS A YES-OR-NO question, Ken.
          Reply

      • TheThailandLife says

        Great points Ken, and my sentiments exactly. The reality is that it hardly affects any of us (in the pocket) at all. Sure, it is fundamentally flawed in that while the working class benefit from low prices and upkeep is maintained by foreign folk paying more, the rich Thais still pay the same rate as lower income people, but by definition it isn't racist. No one set this up as an intentionally racist policy. If that is the case, then the entire monetary system is racist; which as we know it isn't, it has just been manipulated into being elitist and prejudice in many ways. And this is a casing point: There are far more important social causes to get upset about and debate for change than paying an extra 50-100 Baht to see a tourist attraction in Thailand. If we put some of this energy into protecting vulnerable children and women, and protecting the planet we live on from human destruction, we may actually changed the world for the better. But instead we sit here worrying about losing some of the spare change in our pockets to an overpriced temple entry fee in Northern Thailand!
        Reply

  10. PJ says

    Swasdee I’m a Thai citizen living in Bangkok. I agree that dual pricing in Thailand is not good for our country. Though the low price for locals give us easier access to many attractions but we should have some exact regulations to distinct between tourists and residents not just looking at the face.


    Two side of the coins. We Thai people are discriminated by our nationality (not by race) from the civilised countries too and it might be far worse? I visited a country in Europe for two weeks in last year. I had to pay 100 eur to the embassy for the tourist visa, 20 eur for visa agency center because now the embassy only accept the application thru the agency… spent more than one week to prepare the documents… financial statement.. flight/hotel booking... took half day leave to the visa agency.. and the visa agency just refused my application because I planned to stay in two cities within that country but didn’t have the transportation proof between the two cities… ok.. I went back on the next day (boss getting angry) with new travel plan but they said it’s not good that my plane ticket confirmation has Gmail logo at the top.. ok.. I paid 10 bahts for their photo copy service to crop out that gmail.. finally got visa on the next 15 business days .. I still feel so fortunate though because I live in Bangkok with all the embassies present here… some people have to take days to leave their home and come to Bangkok just to do these expensive process. I enjoyed that trip to Europe anyway. The entrance to several attractions were very expensive there compare to here but I prepared for that.


    I also travelled to Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar. They are very beautiful countries and of course dual pricing is still practising there. That time I was a little annoyed but didn’t feel any big deal at all because the historical places there have high maintenance cost and still they have to keep the locals accessible. Until now I read many topics about dual pricing in Thailand and I feel wow it’s really big deal for people from the western and civilised countries. We didn’t realised that it’s illegal in some countries and many foreign visitors resent on this… Please don’t let this be the reason for not visiting here… We are trying to keep with international standard and trying to preserve our culture.
    Reply

    • TheThailandLife says

      Thanks for your input PJ; it's good to hear native Thai prospective on this. I'm really surprised that the embassy only accepts applications via a visa agent. Some embassies, like the British embassy, warn people to be careful of agents because often they lie about their influence over being able to get a visa approval.It's interesting that when visiting historical places in Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar you "didn’t feel any big deal at all because the historical places there have high maintenance cost and still they have to keep the locals accessible". In this situation I think there is a level of acceptance, as long as their isn't a massive difference in dual pricing. As you say, the upkeep of some of the sites is huge, plus these places tend to employ a lot of local people. That said, the problem is that even rich locals will still pay the low price, which is where it becomes unfair; though I don't mind paying a bit more to enter a historical site if it means low-income locals are able to visit at a cheaper price.However, another side to this is that in these countries the governments have more than enough money to provide funds for the upkeep of these sites and keep the rice the same for everyone, but instead choose to line their own pockets and steal money from the country through corruption.
      Reply

      • PJ says

        I’m really glad to get a respond from the author. I just came back from a discussion hosted by a foundation runs by some expats in Bangkok. These expats are doing really good things so they deserve to be treated equally here.


        Regarding the tourist visa, maybe I should have used the word ‘visa application center’ instead of visa agent? Most of the embassies from Europe now have official visa centers in Bangkok e.g. British embassy has VFS Global as their visa application center. These centers are third parties and privately run. So the visa applicants have to pay fee to both embassy and the the visa center.


        I agree the corruption here in this region is very bad. If this is all gone, our economy might be on par with the first world and let hope that could solve the pricing issue.
        Reply

      • Jon says

        It happens in USA as well. In order to obtain a China visa, you cannot go to most of the Chinese Embassies directly. You must submit your application via an authorized agent. And I can understand why it must be this way in some cases (the agent can handle the general public, and then the Embassy official gets the application in the exact order it should be in for easy processing).

        But there are rules on this. Like they must offer basic service at a certain price and within a certain timeframe. But of course the agents can offer 'rush' service for additional fee.
        Reply

        • TheThailandLife says

          Even in the official VFS visa application service that serves Australia, Canada and the UK in Bangkok, they have a VIP service for UK visits. This costs around 600 GBP and gets your visa turned around in 24 hours. They say it doesn't guarantee you a visa, but I couldn't see them turning down the two Thai superstars and their kids I saw in the lounge last time i was there, even if they had the wrong paperwork!
          Reply

    • Michelle says

      NO YOU ARE NOT.

      I PAID BHT1500 FOR A SINGLE RE-ENTRY VISA WHEN IT ONLY COSTS BHT1,000.

      I PAID AN EXTRA BHT500 TO SEND MONEY BACK OVERSEAS.

      I PAY TWICE AS MUCH TO SWIM AT THE POOL COMPARED TO WHAT THAIS PAY.

      I PAY BHT15,000 WHEN CUAGHT FOR DRINK RIDING WHEN THE THAIS PAY FAR LESS.

      THIS LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON!

      THE THAIS SEE FARUNG AS EASY MONEY AND DO NOT CARE ABOUT THIER SAFETY
      Reply

      • Pj says

        Sawasdee Krub Michelle

        I'm very sorry to what happen to you. I hope our government and our society will do something soon. Our system and and economy are still not well developed. Still yes many thai people think that foreigners are rich but we are now opening our mind more to outside world. Please bear with us.
        Reply

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