Recently a friend of mine asked me why I didn’t write posts about Thai bar girls and the sex scene to increase traffic on my blog. Everyone else does!
The answer was short and simple, yet the explanation slightly longer.
In short, quite frankly, it’s boring. The subject matter of bar girls has been discussed into oblivion on hundreds of other websites.
Blog and forum owners happily let people thrash out misogynistic musings on their sites as link-bait to drive traffic. But this isn’t what I set up my blog to do. And the reality is that Thailand is so much more than the bar scene.
It is part of it, but I think many expats would agree that the longer you live here the more insignificant it becomes.
I don't want to waste time discussing questions like, “Can bar girls ever be faithful”? or “Are bar girls getting fatter?” Or discussing stories of men who feel aggrieved at having struck up a relationship with a bar girl and spent tons of money, only for her to move on to a new “handsome man”.
I don't enjoy degrading people, either. I don't enjoy talking about women as if they are inhuman, as if they are objects to be sexually exploited. I have a daughter, a mother, and a wife…Go figure.
Don't get me wrong: I have no problem with casual sex. I am not a prude. What consenting adults do together is up to them. Neither do I pretend that men can stop mentally objectifying women. It's nature. Men are designed to see women as potential mates, and vice versa.
But we do have moral agency. We are capable of respect, of understanding, of compassion, of kindness.
And for all the hatred and dehumanizing comments on forums and blogs, people would do well to remember that these girls are daughters, sisters and mothers, and at one time children with dreams and aspirations – just like our own children.
The point of this article about bar girls is to go beyond the heavy make-up and high heels and look at the industry from the ground up. To strip naked (no pun intended) the circumstances that have resulted in so many women entering the industry and ultimately being dehumanized by punters and society at large.
Bar girls in Ao Nang
Life Before the Bar
Firstly, let’s look at the demographic of the average Thai prostitute.
A sub-standard school education, usually incomplete.
Married young in a rural village – usually in the North or North East somewhere – and partnered by her family with an ill-suited young man.
The husband usually tires of the novelty of marriage quite quickly and swaps puppy love for boozing, gambling and womanizing (or at least 2 or the 3) like his father did, and his father before that.
Boy leaves girl with one or two kids. Girl receives no social security money from the state and no child maintenance from the father of her children.
So, pressure falls on the girl to find work to support the children and her aging parents, who, by the way, she has already disappointed by having a failed marriage, and further upset by now being a single mother and scarring the face of family pride.
Girl then becomes determined to provide her children with a better life, and to elevate the face of her family in the village.
Girl hears from another girl (friend, “cousin”) that working in a bar in Bangkok, or on one of the popular tourist islands, is the best way to make fast money. The added bonus is that she can meet a rich foreign boyfriend who will be prepared to take on her kids and support her parents (or a story very similar to this).
Due to her lack of education, the girl then weighs up the other options as a cleaner, rice farmer or factory worker, in which she faces long, boring hours of work that will never provide enough money to make her children’s/parent’s lives any better than their current situation.
Essentially it's stay dirt poor or take a risk.
So, girl migrates to the city/island to start her covert initiation into the world of prostitution; most likely with very little idea what it entails and what she's letting herself in for.
*At this point it should be noted that some (not all) girls arrive at bars in debt to middlemen who arrange travel and accommodation from their province. So even if the girl wants to leave after arrival, she will have to work off that debt first.
This is a devious way to keep the recruitment numbers high and the deserters low. I mean, once you've sold your body a few times the deed is done; it's pointless returning to disappoint your parents with the news that you didn't make it in the “big city” after all. Once you've crossed the line, you might as well try and make it work, right?
Cultural & Social Obligations
Having travelled to the North and North East of Thailand many times and seen the lack of opportunity and pressures of money (debt) and “keeping face” that young girls grow up with, when I see a girl standing outside a bar on the street, no matter how sexy she is trying to act, I find it impossible to see her as anything other than a victim of circumstance, of a system that in many ways socially engineers and steers women towards prostitution.
What I see in the bar is not a piece of meat to be exploited, but a girl that grew up believing that one day, when she finishes school, she will find a respectable job (or start a business) and be able to make her parents proud. If you live in Thailand you'll know that this is very much the Thai dream.
I don’t see a girl who grew up aspiring to be a dirty old man’s fantasy, or a girl who aspired to regularly sleep with men she doesn't find attractive.
I see a girl who naively bought into the idea that her teenage husband would stay faithful and do his best to always support her and their kids, and was victim of the antiquated cultural requirement that a girl must marry the first seemingly decent boy her parents catch her flirting with.
I see a girl who felt that she had to sell her soul for the bigger picture, to go against the morals she was brought up in an attempt to better the future of her family.
I see a girl who has sacrificed her own happiness, and potentially her mental stability, for the benefit of her family. No one should ever have to do that.
And then I see a plethora or foreign men coming to exploit, not help, as they may proclaim, the unfortunate situation of a woman failed by a society that does not provide social welfare or adult education programs for single mothers, and does not hold men in the slightest bit accountable for their offspring.
Is it Really a True “Choice”?
No doubt someone will surf on through here and tell me that many bar girls do the job by choice, making that self-serving observation that “she doesn't have to do it if she doesn't want to”.
But as I have covered, the cultural pressures and limited choice of economic progression force the hand into the fire. So the word “choice” becomes an ambiguous one at best.
When you debate this issue and use the word “choice” as your key defense, do you mean the same “choices” (quote on quote) that you would accept for your kids or close friends? I very much doubt it.
If the alternative career paths wouldn't provide an acceptable level of living for our children, then how can we so flippantly use the word “choice” as a justification for what these girls do?
Of course, there will always be a handful of women in Thailand who left a decent career to make more money in the sex industry; every one seems to have an anecdotal story in this regard. But we know this isn't the norm; it's not a common occurence.
The Reality Behind The Heels & Smiles
I won’t lie. My eyes danced when I first saw the bright lights, high heels, elegance and youthful beauty of the girls in the go-go bars.
It really didn’t compute that the hostesses in the bars were actually no different to the hookers lurking in the back streets of Soho, London. I couldn't see any hollow-eyed druggies with greasy hair, and there were no bad attitudes looking for the quickest transaction possible.
This all looked so friendly and welcoming.
And it's this sugar-coated version of prostitution that makes it easier to ignore the truth.
However, the more I learnt about the industry behind the scenes – the social-economic structure of the country, the systematic oppression of the lower classes, and rural prejudice – the easier it became to see the emptiness behind the smiles and gracious gestures.
Strangely, men seem to get so caught up in the ego trip of being a “handsome man” that they neglect to notice that these bar girls are young Thai women, and by preference probably don't actually fancy western men.
In fact, the majority of young Thai women are into teenage Korean pop stars and Channel 7/Channel 3 Thai movie stars.
Yet being from the social underclass, divorced/separated (more often than not with kids) prior to the bar, the only Thai men they have access to on a serious relationship level are also from that social underclass.
These are low-income earning men that will (generally) resemble similar characteristics to the inadequate man they were once married to. As we know, gambling, alcoholism and domestic abuse is rife in such economic settings.
Again, consider that word “choice”.
Moreover, once a Thai girl has been in the bar, she will struggle to get a Thai boyfriend at all. Therefore, once in the bar, a westerner/foreigner isn’t a choice, he is the only option.
If you know an iota about Thai culture, you'll know that a girl who works, or has worked, in a farang-style beer bar will struggle to earn the respect of other Thais going forward. Thais, unfortunately, tend to be able to tell working girls / ex-working girls simply by their mannerisms and by asking a few strategic questions.
Of course, few will refer to her as a prostitute. In fact, the word prostitute is seldom used, out of politeness.Two of the more preferred terms are “Poo ying gaan koon” (lady working at night) or “Poo ying haa gin” (lady looking/finding (something) to eat).
A girl who has worked in the bar, regardless of whether she bags a rich farang or not, will suffer a lifetime of gossip and stares from the village folk, not to mention the standard whispers and looks most Thai women endure when they have a foreign boyfriend.
What's strange is that Thailand has an abundance of what one might refer to as average, middle-class single women – university educated and hardworking. Yet many foreign men choose to hang around in the bar scene paying for sex, and end up with a partner from that scene. They then wonder why it all goes belly up.
Not so long ago a friend of mine was in town and he wanted to walk down the infamous bar-laden Soi Nana in Bangkok.
We paced the cesspit of hawkers, child and amputee beggars, ladyboy and female street hookers and plethora of foreign men.
Rather than thinking, “Wow look at all these hot women”, I thought, “Man, this must be one of the most soulless places on the planet, one that exists for one reason only: for the desperate to feed off the desperate”.
Maybe it's just me.
Bar Girls Want the Same Things We Do
A Thai bar girl isn’t a nymphomaniac seeking a life of endless sexual encounters (though I'm sure someone will anecdotally comment that “I met this girl once….”) as many expats and forum lemmings would have you believe.
No, she is seeking a guy to take her off the lowest run of the ladder and elevate her and her family’s status to heights that simply wouldn’t be possible trying to run the capitalist gauntlet from her current standpoint.
She, like every other human being, wants to be loved, respected and valued.
And this is the one thing guys that frequently pursue encounters with bar girls can’t face up to: That underneath all the makeup and forced sexual suggestion is a girl who wants to be loved. Yet she acts like a woman who can’t be broken.
I think Bob Dylan put it best when he sung:
“She takes just like a woman, yes, she does
She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does
And she aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl”
And before someone comes at me with a “you're victimizing women by treating them like children” comment, the above lyrics can be applied to anyone in a vulnerable place in life.
The reason guys hate to be reminded of the human side of a bar girl is because it would take the “She loves it!” shine off of the conquest.
Imagining that one of those girls could be your own sister or daughter brings the conscience into play. It makes guys realize that these girls have feelings and emotions beyond the fantasy of the delirious male ego that believes these girls are more than happy to be commodified for sex.
Becoming a full-time bargirl takes conditioning.
Just look at the face of a new addition to a bar, and then return two months later to see her stripped of all that might have been sacred. I have seen it with my own eyes….
I will never forget one very timid girl, who looked like a rabbit in headlights on arriving at her new place of work. Her “cousin” had invited her to take up a position as a “waitress”.
It took her weeks to be conditioned to “go with a customer”. I know this because the bar boss was an acquaintance of mine for a while.
Three months later my travels took me away from the island, and as my taxi passed the bar on the way to Samui airport, she was swinging on the dance pole, hair extensions, knee high boots and calling out to men walking by. The transformation was quite something, but sad all the same.
The way men generally discuss these girls is as if they were “born to do it”. Again, this is a self-preserving attempt to separate their actions from the cause.
Perhaps some do take to it like a duck to water, but the majority have to be broken in, so to speak, and are helped along by the Mama Sang and other working girls.
The Irony of Similarity Between Bargirl & Customer
Ironically, the average sex-tourist isn’t so far removed from his subject.
He may talk a good conquest to his pals, but secretly he longs to be admired as a man, to be loved, to be held, to be respected and noticed by women; things life may have failed to ever present amicably, or in a way that would be considered “normal” to other guys.
So he chooses to pay, which may be the only avenue he has to getting close to what he really wants from a woman. There's nothing wrong with that, if the transaction is consensual, right?
Yet all too often in this transactional realm, the man falls foul to the strategic lies of a seasoned player.
He gets too involved. The lines get blurred. He forgets it is a financial agreement and not a real romance and ends up losing not just his integrity but a considerable financial investment.
His bitterness at being “played” then results in misogynistic behavior, and the need for revenge through the physical and verbal degradation of Thai women.
Psychological Impact, Alcoholism, Drug Abuse
Can a bar girl have a normal relationship after the bar?
Of course it's possible, and I am sure there are many happy relationships that have lasted the distance between bar girls and westerners.
The amount of foreigners maintaining contact with bargirls and sending money to them once they return home is testament to the fact that in many cases the needy find the needy on common ground.
She admires and he complies, she “takes care of him” and he “takes care” (financially) of her beyond the bar. The success rate, however, comes into question when reading all the negative stories foreigners post online.
On the other hand, it should be considered that sleeping with men twice/thrice their age, and men they generally have no physical attraction to, week in week out, will take its toll on the majority of girls.
No doubt that in some cases there is psychological damage, similar to that experienced by victims of sexual abuse, albeit the bargirl act is consensual and transactional.
Therefore, it isn’t surprising that so many girls experience breakdowns and turn to drugs and alcoholism and end up in refuges. The reality is that post the bar, most struggle to ever have a normal, loving relationship.
The lucky few are able to settle for a retired expat who is prepared to pay the bills in return for regular thrills. True love really isn’t an option for most bargirls, period. But then what is true love, anyway?
When you hit the bars on a Saturday night, I wouldn't blame you for thinking the last paragraph regarding drug and alcohol abuse and refuges is a little far fetched. I would have thought so many years ago.
Until I taught martial arts at a women’s refuge in Bangkok, that is.
I met well over 50 women there who were victims of bars. Those that had broken down psychologically, those who experienced family abandonment when their parents found out (or rather when the friends and other villagers found out what they already knew), and perhaps most disturbingly, those who got pregnant after having been raped by pimps/facilitators, bar owners or customers.
I was shocked by the stories.
When I tell the “It’s a choice” guys about the refuge, they simple can’t believe it, either.
Neither can they believe that many girls are bought and pimped, and in fact can’t leave the bar until the debt is paid in full. Admittedly this is getting rarer, but it still happens in the very poorest of rural areas.
For these girls, the fewer customers you go with the more your rent accumulates on top of the money that was paid for you to secure the job in the first place.
Of course, not every case fits this template, and there are many variations in circumstance. But the point is that the majority of bar migrations aren't fully transparent, and the majority of girls, however they may seem now, would have been largely ignorant to the life that would become them.
In Conclusion
Three thousand words in and I hope you may now understand why I do not glamorize the bar scene on my blog.
My blog isn’t a platform to speak about these girls as toys to be played with and treated with contempt.
My blog is not a corner of the web that will degrade, marginalize, or spread hatred.
A Thai bar girl is a woman, just like your mother, sister, daughter, girlfriend or wife.
The key difference between the dearly loved women in your life and a bar girl is an education and a level playing field of opportunity, which amounts to nothing more than the lottery that is birth.
I want to end by playing you Mae Sai by the group Carabou.
The song is about a girl from the North who goes away to become a prostitute to make money for her parents. She gets hooked on drugs and by the time she returns her mother is dead.
The video has English subs, so don't worry if you don't speak Thai.
Makes you think, huh?
Start with a quick quote here from Cigna. Then you can compare it to other companies. If you are sending money to your loved one, or your own Thai bank account, try Wise here. It is fast and cheap. Me and the majority of my readers are using it. Learning Thai makes life easier, and way more fun. I use Thaipod101. Get a free account by clicking here. It is really easy to use.More Tips for a Better Life in Thailand
Get Good Health Insurance:
Send Money to Thailand:
Improve Your Thai Skills:
Last Updated on
Farang says
Mar 20, 2013 at 1:29 pm
James says
Jan 24, 2013 at 9:03 am
James says
Jan 17, 2013 at 6:32 am
TheThailandLife says
Jan 17, 2013 at 7:10 pm
paul fowler says
Dec 30, 2012 at 7:26 am
Grof Melee says
One common argument is that it 'looks odd' that old, bald, white, western men are seen with younger women. Odd to whom? Asian men marry younger Asian women too, nothing said as it's 'cultural'.
Stop apologising for what YOU think are crimes on behalf of the western world.
Dec 13, 2012 at 12:50 am
bibblies says
... and those who've left school after 14-15. You seem to have met a small section. (Probably a good thing!)
Nov 09, 2012 at 3:57 am
bibblies says
Have you also seen them crying after 'family' and other Thai 'friends' have done something to them? I don't think the customers are the main cause of their problems.
This is wrong. I've heard plenty of Thais talk bad about bar girls. Thai bar girls (or ex-bar girls) also tell me that this happens to them. Being an employer of bar-girls doesn't give you much more insight. Think what you'd tell an employer and then half it and half again for their level of trust.
Nov 09, 2012 at 3:54 am
bibblies says
You still haven't answered it at all. Saying prostitutes tend to come from poor and troubled backgrounds does not answer the question:
Why do other countries, with more poverty and social problems, NOT have as much prostitution?
And, by the way, I have met prostitutes born into relatively rich families.
Nov 09, 2012 at 3:45 am
Bron says
This article refreshingly focuses on heart breaking reality as opposed to the crude exploitation of prostitution. It's a very welcome change. He is not saying that this applies to ALL gogo girls. So you've had a few bargirl girlfriends - that does not make you the all-knowing professor of bargirl psychology. Believe it or not Bibblies, all girls are individuals, they are all different. And your ranking system is fked up btw.
Sep 16, 2014 at 7:24 pm
bibblies says
The answers to these questions will obviously be 'no, not really', 'not really', 'not many' and 'not long'. On any subject, if I wanted an opinion on something, I'd talk to someone who actually knew something about it, not someone who didn't have experience. Try thailandguru for some more writing about bargirls and the attitude difference between them and girls (often just as poor) who don't work in bars. He's closer to the mark. Look at his stories of trying to help bargirls. There's a different attitude. He's actually done it (unlike, I'd guess, you).
Of course, there are normal girls there who've had bad luck and made bad choices. And there are some whose lives, with patience and hard work, you can help turn around. But there are undeniably also some, incredible as it may be to you and me, who just seem to prefer to make a living this way to getting a lower, if still reasonable livable wage elsewhere. I don't understand it coming from the culture that I do. And I don't like it. But they are there, undeniably.
Sep 17, 2014 at 5:32 pm
Peter says
For years I was in doubt whether these girls' bad characters are created by the poverty (which makes them feel inferior; inferiority might generate all sorts of callousness) or other outer circumstances. My conclusion, today, is that 80-90% of the reason they end up as bad girls is to find in the character they were born with. The acceptance and encouragement of the Thai society adds a bit to it. So does the mother.
So, in short: mainly greed and laziness - that's it! If she has a good character, she is very unlikely to enter this business.
Jan 04, 2016 at 4:23 am
bibblies says
It's the family and the culture that makes them (that makes anyone, pretty much, I think). If the culture condones it, if any of her family or peers are doing or have done the same, that makes it much more likely that she'll enter the business.
If a girl from a family of poor prostitutes were to be taken from her parents and brought up by a foster family in another country, steeped in a different culture and values, I can't see her being anywhere as likely to become a bar-girl. She could even brought up in an equivalently poor family and, steeped in a different culture and values, be less likely to be a prostitute.
Jan 08, 2016 at 6:00 pm
pattayacondo says
I don't even know how the hell i google here to "Why I Don’t Blog About Thai Bar Girls" because i didn't look anything related to your blog but it was best thing i did in last 2 weeks.
And after reading it i just fell obligated to write a couple a words. Im 27 year old,I live in Thailand for a 4 years now.I had owned a big bar buisness in Pattaya along with 2 friends.After 10months i sold my percent of bar to my friends and i went to condominium buisness.
The profit from bar buisness was good,but for people like me(people with good heart) it was too much.The things i saw in that 10months i must admit and im not shy to tell that cuople of times i even cried.People dont understand why they have to work like that.Most foreigners that i talk with think they like sex more then everything,believe me ITS FAR FROM TRUTH.
I dont know about 100% of bar girls but im sure for 99% of them.Like you said and i seen too much times,when you compare lady that comes to work in bar for a first time-first day-first week and compare same lady 1-2months later difference is like comparing black and white.Believe me NOBODY wants to work like this.Of course after a time she get used to it.
Unfortunately she DOESN'T have any CHOICE in life.Ive seen many times newcomers crying in room after "customers",i've seen atempted suicides,much percent of them after some time start using drugs,not a day pass without alcohol.Ive talk to MANY of them as i can talk moderate thai and i know what is behind those eyes and smiles when you look passing by on street and nobody can tell me different.
Behind those smiles is a totally different story.Like i said im not cold heart person and it was to much for me almost every day.I dont even know how much times i saw bar girl talk with foreigner and 5 minutes later saw her crying in bathroom.
I dont want to be harsh and say stupid farangs never understand why she have to work like this but its true.
Did anybody see thai people talk bad about thai bar girl or something similiar to this? NEVER. I never forget when i was in hotel,and in hallway near me was 3 cleaning ladies that i talk to them on thai and couple of foreigners talking together.Other hotel room door opened and 3 fat arab people and 1 young thai lady were on the way out.Foreigners said:"Uhuhu look look she get 3 dicks today i bet she feel great haha", and 3 young cleaning ladies told me on thai:"songsan na,mai mi krai jaak tamgan jang ni.Which mean- Its sad right? Nobody wants to work like this.
By listening that you can just think how thai people understand why she have to work like this compared to foreigners.Thais will NEVER talk bad about bar girl because everybody UNDERSTAND why she have to work like this and have bad life like this.
I dont want to offend nobody but i think some farangs are really stupid in brain.Most of the Thai will never consider having a thai prostitute as girlfriend,wife because everybody understand why she works like this and what problems in life she has,from non euducation,babies to poor familiy.And thai will be ashamed even to walk outside along with bar girl.
I dont feel sorry for foreigners who lose a house,everything becouse of bar girls.Foreigners that dont understand that she's working for money,money much needed that is more important that same foreigner even when they walk together holding hands in moonlight. When i talk to one thai man taxi motorcycle near my condo,he asked me How can farang much education,money even consider dating a prostitiute,he asked me in western countries do farangs date with prostitutes?? I didnt know what to answer.
Some website,like stickman's website mentioned before and MANY OF THEM are stupid,somebody who dont know nothing can believe it but I sure wont.Ive seen too much time bar girls behind smiles and i know what kind of life they have.Life that is not considered to far from raping every day.Life that has to do not for herself but for family and baby(ies).But like i said,in time she get used to it,and from then on its only about money because her soul has dissapear already.
Im really glad to come to your blog i hope much people will read it before talking things about bar girls.But i really hope one day people will talk something different about thailand as there are millions of great things in thailand unfortunately people always stick to talk about bad things.
I like the way you talk you seem like a person who have brain to think, not like half of foreigners on different websites who live in red light district and consider everybody in thailand bar girl if she wear short skirt and have piercing in ears.
I would like to have "farang" friend like you in Thailand im so boring with my "friends" who only know bad things about about Thailand and stories with bar girls,other than million of good things which make this country.I more enjoy play xbox 360 online then going out with them lol.This is why i started to have only thai friends,it seem like they have more brain in their head,but people like you still give me a hope that there is a decent western with brain still living in Thailand.
Nov 05, 2012 at 8:14 pm
Erik says
However, the basic premise of your post could be written about prostitution almost anywhere. There ARE prostitutes in rich countries too you know, remember the famous New York escort girl who brought down that politician. She was very well off and still hooked. A lot more women than you think have taken money or things for sex at some point in their life. Naturally there's a major difference from being a bar girl or a high end escort girl but selling your body is selling your body.
But you're simply being way, way to naive and whiteknight about the whole thing. Prostitution and promiscuity is simply a Thai cultural phenomonen and favorite past time. Prostitution is rampant in Thailand at all levels of society. The expensive Thai only memberclubs don't have poor Isaan girls in them, but middle class educated pale Thai girls who can hold a conversation about wine just as easily as flirt with you.
I have to say, this is another account of falling sway to the myth of the 'beautiful savage' and whiteknighting.
Why do you even waste your time with these girls? There are millions of normal Thai women to spend your time with.
Oct 14, 2012 at 11:01 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 15, 2012 at 12:21 am
Erik says
I don't frequent prostitutes anymore, but I am not ashamed that I did have a few experiences with bargirls as a newb in Thailand. Paying for sex is unsatisfying and degrading for both parties and indeed is a soul destroying venture for both the customer and the girl, unless of course you're a sociopath, whom are found on both sides. Otherwise how can you justify stealing a mans entire life savings like all the sob stories so rampant on Thaivisa? Don't tell me that it's ok to scam and rob someone of all their savings just because someone is old, stupid and delusional?
Thai promiscuity?
A study done by Durex which you may have heard about (http://www.coconutsbangkok.com/news/durex-condoms-thai-men-most-unfaithful-in-the-world/) found that Thai men were the most likely to cheat on their spouse in the world and that Thai women were the second most likely in the world. Accoding to the study a whopping 59% of Thai women admit to having cheated on their husband/boyfriend and 54% of Thai men admit the same.
As you probably know, the vast majority of prostituion in Thailand is Thai to Thai in many different forms say the oppulent 'massage' palaces on Ratchada the size of hotels. Or the many, many membership clubs used to entertain business prospects or the karaoke places found in EVERY hole in the wall town in the countryside. Don't tell me that this isn't a Thai cultural phenomonen. In which other poor countries is prostitution so rampant and obvious?
There actually have been written books about this subject such as 'Prostitution in Thailand: Myth and Reality' written by a female Indian PHD. Here is an excerpt from a review:
"The chapter 2 of the work begins with the specific question of prostitution in Thailand. This chapter entitled "Prostitution in Thailand: its Historical Evolution" discusses the social and cultural ambience in Thailand answerable for the growth of prostitution. The influence of Brahmanical philosophy and the role of Buddhism behind are narrated in this part. It discusses the historical evolution of prostitution from the ayuthia period (i.e., fourteenth century itself) and refers to the social position of women in Thai society. In this context it refers to women in traditional society and the system of polygamy. Analysis of customary Thai laws and social-legal environment as a factor behind growth of prostitution are also discussed. The factor of colonical infiltration by the middle of nineteenth century and its role behind growth of commercial economy and bureaucratic class and related changes in social order also helped to change the social position of women and in the growth of the practice and trade of harlotry. In large commercial houses of Bangkok, for male folk it was not deemed unusual to have concubines, and once men with numerical superiority of concubines began to acquire some kind of status symbol."
And:
"This part of the study seeks to analyse if prostitution has been culturally and socially defended in Thai society. The question of general socialization of Thai girls, the family expectation and role of girls are points of study and analysis. It is concluded that social and cultural environment of Thailand, at least in some parts of the country contributes to the easy growth of the occupation."
So as you see, there ARE cultural factors at play in why Thailand and not say Bangladesh has become infamous for prostitution.
Let me be clear that I don't condone prostitution, I think it's very harmful in the long run, but not the act itself, but the dehumanizing aspect of doing it over and over.
The whiteknight comment was out of place personal attack so I'd like to retract it.
But it does seem like you carry some 'white guilt'. I certainly didn't dominate any brown people or any other people for that matter for 200 years. The Japanese however were absolutely brutal in Asia during WW2.
I don't claim to know the motivation and background of bargirls. From my limited experience, it seems like some/many seem to quite enjoy being young, partying every night and having more money than a managing director. It's rare to see a bargirl without an expensive smartphone for example. For many others being a wife-for-rent is a smart retirement plan. Of course, all this comes at a big price and I am not saying it's ok or condonable, but trying to argue, that it's not always clear who is exploiting who. Marrigage for money is not exactly a new thing.
I think that the worst exploitation is done by Thais to Thais and that many sextourists are not really the monsters they're made out to be (except for the sociopaths you describe). Many are just lonely, older men who are looking for love in all the wrong places.
Really, having this kind of discussion makes me feel kind of dirty because this part of Thailand isn't the Thailand that I'd like to live in. I honestly can't understand how anyone can live the bar lifestyle for any amount of time whether as a customer or bar girl. I look forward to Thailand becoming truly prosperous.
Anyway, your post is written with good intentions and I think it's good to get some opposition to the sexpat drivel that is all over the internet.
Oct 15, 2012 at 6:13 am
bibblies@hotmail.com says
1. 'I think that the worst exploitation is done by Thais to Thais and that many sextourists are not really the monsters they’re made out to be'.
Yes, exactly.
2. In which other poor countries is prostitution so rampant and obvious?
'The Thailand Life' conspicuously hasn't answered this. It's his main point, poverty, and yet he never addresses the glaring hole in it.
3. 'But it does seem like you carry some ‘white guilt’
Three strikes, three goals! Yes, this is probably why he doesn't answer. He just seems to be interested in going on about white men taking advantage of these girls whereas, as you point out, other Thais are more guilty and often some of these men will try to help these girls far more than their fellow Thais...
Oct 29, 2012 at 10:28 pm
pattayacondo says
To answers Erik- yes its wrong to steal entire mens life saving,house etc.Can you blame them,No! Why?Because they work for money.Maybe some foreigner should start date prostitutes in their home countries so can have experience when come here with same kind of girls.It is same,just different country.Like i sad,why Thai would never consider having a prostitute as girlfriend,wife.Becouse every one of them understand why she works like this,only foreigners dont.
Most of ladies that works in bar are married and have babies from the relatevely young age,it was responsabilty of parents to teach their kinds.Did you ever see bar girl with good parents..i had never.In my moo-baan ,village, of my girlfriend everybody are married,happily,why? because they didnt start having men and screwing and marring at the age of 15.Everybody who is married had married after 20year.People dont have brain until that age,especially for happy marriage and think something more about men.So men cant be blamed for being men.Pussy dont stay on ladies head so everybody can fuck.Its her choice,and later probably have consequnces and have a baby and take care alone.And its very big reason why they have to work in bar.Eduction isnt a problem if they dont have to take care baby or family.They can find work everywhere at 7000,8000baht and maybe even a find a foreigner.But find a foreigner with good intensions and heart as a normal girl isnt same working as a bar girl and finding a foreigner.I know many good ladies that work for minimal wage and look for foreigner.Not old,not for money,for love.Because they have choice.They not have baby,bad family.its easy when you have own life and dont think about take care nobody except yourself.
1.You said:"As you probably know, the vast majority of prostituion in Thailand is Thai to Thai"- How many bars are there that service for farang in pattaya for example and how much are there for thai only? 300 to 1?Tell me 1 soi in thailand that is only for thai? Nana,soi cowboy,patpong,soi 6,7 etc.,walking street,soi bukhao,bangla road only for farangs.If there aint those areas nobody would even know about prostitution here.
2.bibbles I dont know about other poor countries(btw Thailand isnt considered really poor),but let me tell you in richer Korea and many others there is also much prostitution..just behind closed doors.
It isnt only about removing a bar scene,you have to look what is behind this.If average bar girl have decent education(high school),no babies at young age(or if have at least she will get child support),normal family there wouldnt be any bar scene.
When i read Stickman blog before i want to go to toilet and puke!Every blog entry starts with a bar girl,and then complaining why she do like this.Well,hey just a thought! Maybe you should step outside red light district and step into a real world with normal girls which have some choices in life and which you dont have to spend thai baht to talk to you.
Only becouse of "people" who spend life in red light districts and see only THAT KIND OF GIRLS is reason why Thailand has a bad image like this.
Nov 05, 2012 at 10:03 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 05, 2012 at 10:34 pm