You will find a huge amount of misleading information online regarding Sin Sod, and conflicting experiences can be found plastered all over forums and blogs.
So, when a foreigner wants to marry his Thai girlfriend and the inevitable subject of Sin Sod arises, it is no surprise that he becomes confused over what he should be paying and why he is expected to pay it.
Part of the problem is that Thai women often don’t explain the concept of Sin Sod very well, which isn’t at all surprising, considering that for them it’s a standard tradition and an age-old part of Thai culture.
They just get on with it. It's normal. They've seen it a hundred times at weddings since childhood. And like traditions the world over, some people simply participate and follow along without really understanding the history.
I'm married myself, and I've been to a few Thai weddings in my time. But of course, if we want to know the truth about Sin Sod, the best people to ask are Thai people themselves. So for this post, to make sure my understanding is accurate, I enlisted a couple of Thai friends to help me stay on point.
Before I begin, I am not by any means saying that the information in this post is entirely definitive or one hundred percent historically factual.
However, what I can say is that the information is the experience of myself and two Thai people, both educated and well-versed in their own culture.
Contents
What Is Sin Sod?
Sin Sod is paid to the bride's parents. It is a repayment for the investment they have put into raising their daughter, and also for the loss incurred by their daughter not being readily available to support them anymore.
It is also symbolic of the groom's ability to be able to financially take care of the bride.
Sin Sod is a very significant part of the Thai marriage tradition, and something most families take seriously. However, not all families keep the money, and in the modern day it is often returned.
The Three Components of the “Thai Dowry”
To break the meaning down further, there are generally three reasons for the payment of Sin Sod, as follows:
1. Traditionally, the eldest unmarried daughter takes care of her parents until she gets married, and therefore the Sin Sod in some respects replaces that income for the parents. As you might know, it is common for a single Thai woman to send a portion of her salary to her parents each month.
This usually stops once she is married and has her children to care for.
So, as you can imagine, for parents with no pension plan and little savings, the Sin Sod is a much-needed payday.
Richer families, who don't need the money, usually return the money because, quite simply, they don’t need it. For them, Sin Sod is more about showing status.
2. Once a woman has been married, and/or has kids, the structure of Thai society makes it very hard for her to find a man of decent stature. Therefore, the Sin Sod acts as a sort of insurance in the event that the husband leaves and doesn't offer post-separation financial support.
The bottom line is, if a woman finds herself back living with her parents as a single mother, the Sin Sod insures that there will be some money/land in the family to support the family.
Thai society also dictates that the older a Thai woman gets the harder it becomes for her to find a job, let alone a well-paid one. So again, should she find herself alone in the future, at least the family will have some money put by for some inevitably rainy years ahead.
As you can see, marriage is actually somewhat of a risk for a young woman.
3. Where poorer families are concerned, Sin Sod is considered repayment for the money invested in their daughter. Many families sell land, borrow money and generally go without to put their kids through university, or in some cases to simply put food on the table.
The Sin Sod is essentially a repayment for that investment. The amount paid for Sin Sod could be considered relative to the sacrificial cost of bringing up the child – thus the reason it is often referred to as payment for the “mother's milk”.
What Sin Sod Isn't
Some refer to Sin Sod as a dowry, but to be clear, you are not buying a woman or approaching her family to buy her.
The Western-centric viewpoint that Sin Sod equates to the purchasing of a Thai bride is completely incorrect.
To fully understand the tradition, I think it pays (pardon the pun) to put the word “dowry” out of your mind, not least because any suggestion to your future in-laws that you are purchasing their daughter will be very offensive.
Who Pays Sin Sod?
Any man marrying a Thai woman is expected to pay Sin Sod.
The amount is usually agreed between the two families. Where a foreigner's parents aren't present, the duty falls on him to ask the family how much they expect.
Who Doesn’t Pay Sin Sod?
In the modern day, many families don’t expect Sin Sod, and many will tell the boyfriend that they don’t want any money. Indeed, many young Thai women are now rejecting the tradition because of its outdated meaning.
However, it is very rare that money isn’t shown at the wedding, albeit that it might be returned.
It should be noted that to expect the money back, or to ask for it back, is unacceptable. One will be offered it back if that is to be the case.
Also note that you may not be required to pay Sin Sod if the woman you are marrying has been married before. See the section below for more details.
How Much Should You Pay for Sin Sod?
Historically this has (generally) depended on six factors, as listed and discussed below:
- Family Name
- Education
- Prior Marital Status
- Dependents
- Employment
- Age
1. Family Name
If your girlfriend is from a well-to-do family, you could be looking at a fair lump sum. However, in this situation the money will most likely be for show and returned to you after the wedding.
2. Education
If your girlfriend is university educated or beyond, then it is likely that you will be looking at a minimum of around 300,000 Baht. This is a low-moderate amount by modern-day Thai standards.
For example, a friend at my girlfriend’s workplace is soon to marry a Thai lady of a high-school level education and he is paying 200,000 Baht. His salary is approximately 30,000 per month.
3. Prior Marital Status
If your girlfriend has been married before then you should pay less. You might argue – on grounds of tradition – that you shouldn’t be paying at all. However, as a respectful gesture, you should offer something.
Remember that marriage is intended to happen once in Thai culture, and therefore importance is emphasized on marrying for the first time.
Unlike second and third marriages in the west, which may be seen as equally as important and “true love” matches, in Thailand they are not that much of a big deal. Celebrity second and third marriages are the exception to this rule.
4. Dependents
If your girlfriend has kids, tradition dictates that you should pay less.
This stems from the age-old thinking that the woman is tainted in some way, already given to another man, so to speak.
You will become responsible for another man’s seed, and for that you shouldn’t be paying for the privilege.
5. Employment
In terms of a woman's employment, it's hierarchical and usually correlates with education and earnings. For example, you'd pay/show more to marry a banker than a cleaner.
6. Age
Age is a contentious and quite horrible issue when it comes to Sin Sod.
I mean, when ex childhood superstar singer Tata Young, at almost 40 years old married Prame, the son of the FairTex boxing brand owner, she commanded 100 million Baht Sin Sod.
But for a 40-year-old woman from a poor rural family and a few kids in tow, it's unlikely that more than 200,000 Baht would be on offer.
That said, the type of guys such a woman would have access to wouldn't be able to afford more than that anyway.
But who knows, occasionally a rich man does fall for a poorer woman in good old classist Thailand, and to show his wealth he would no doubt slap down a hefty sin sod.
Age comes fairly low down on the list, though, and Sin Sod is generally decided by status, family wealth, family name and accomplishment/education of the female in question.
Want to know what I think you should pay? Leave your circumstances in the comments section and I'll give you my estimate!
My Girlfriend Is Asking For Too Much!
Many foreigners find themselves in this position, and it isn’t necessarily that your girlfriend is trying to con you, more so that she is trying to secure higher face for her family, and in some cases to elevate her family's wealth.
Face is everything in Thai society. To marry a foreigner with a Sin Sod of less than 200,000 Baht would be quite a loss of face – not just for her but also for you!
The fact that she is marrying a foreigner will mean tongues start wagging in the village.
So when you say:
“What! No way! I am not paying to marry you”
Or you announce a payment less than what an average Thai guy earning 10-15k a month would pay, you get branded a “Farang kee-nock” (literally translated as bird shit foreigner, but refers to a poor, lower class foreigner), or “Keniiow” (stingy).
The folks in the village will have a good laugh:
“Why is she marrying a foreigner when he can’t afford to pay anymore than one of us folk”?
Yes, unfortunately most Thais believe, as many westerners do, that Thai women only marry foreigners for financial security, unless of course the Thai woman is richer or as wealthy as the foreigner.
Ask Her Parents
Anyway, don't take your girlfriend’s word for it, because the tradition is that you are supposed to ask the mother and father for the amount they want. It is not for the woman to tell the man what she wants. So arrange to meet with the parents and politely ask them what they expect.
They will probably say one of two things:
1. “Oh no, mai pen rai. We don’t want anything”.
2. “It's up to you”.
The first answer doesn’t mean you say, “Okay, great”, and go and buy a new car instead.
By answering in this way they are exercising their “grengjai”. They are being polite.
What they actually mean is:
“Tell us what you WANT to pay, and you will be able to tell by our body language whether we think it’s okay or not”.
So basically you need to make out you really want to pay. As you can see, this all falls in nicely with the non-confrontational Thai style.
The second answer means, “What do you want to pay… but don’t insult me”!
*It should be noted that some families might genuinely want nothing at all.
Will You Get Your Money Back?
Chances are that you might, actually. Though don't expect it.
Interestingly, there was a poll Pantip, the popular Thai website, that surveyed a number of readers, asking whether their families returned the money.
48 out of 75 families said they returned the Money. Ten families returned only some of the money. And 17 families didn’t return any money.
All This Talk of Money Seems So Shallow!
Yes, and for the most part it is.
Sin Sod is largely about face.
“Look at my daughter, she went to university and married a good man with a good job”.
Or even, “Look at my daughter, she didn’t go to university, but she is so beautiful and hardworking that she married a lovely rich foreign guy”.
As a foreigner, you may feel like you are buying your girlfriend and have become a victim of the old “Thailand ATM” syndrome. And depending on the circumstances, that could be the case.
But if you're in a secure, genuine relationship, you need to forget what the misinformed barstool gossips say and consider your girlfriend and the culture. And yes, that's right, she too needs to consider your wallet.
Like it or not, Sin Sod is a big part of Thai culture, and, as soon as a Thai woman announces marriage, the big question on everyone's lips is, “How much Sin Sod“?
Why?
Because Sin Sod is a reflection of her and her family and you and your family.
A Thai woman lives to make her family proud, to show the other villagers that they are a good family, that they are to be respected, and that they are climbing the social scale.
I Feel I'm Compromising My Western Culture
I hear you.
I come from a culture where the woman’s father is supposed to pay all the wedding costs, though it’s more a 50-50 thing in the modern day.
But think about it like this: Your girlfriend has probably already sacrificed many of her cultural traditions to accommodate you in her life. Living with you and sleeping with you before marriage are two of those sacrifices.
Without you knowing it, she will have been the talk of her village for living with you without being married – this reflects badly on her family.
Don’t forget that you chose her as your girlfriend, and with all due respect, before getting involved with a woman from another culture, you really should understand the culture first.
On an emotional level, you need to consider that just like every Western girl dreams of a white wedding to make her daddy proud, the majority of Thai women grow up dreaming of marrying in their home town and making their parents proud with a respectable Sin Sod, and in turn elevating the family face.
The way I see it is this: An average wedding in the UK costs £20,000. So if you pay £4,000 – £6,000 to marry your Thai girlfriend in a village ceremony that costs no more than £2,000, you still save a whopping £12,000!
That said, in the UK, you get gifts and money from your girlfriend’s family, so that does offset some of the cost.
You also get money in Thailand. Guests put money in a box on their way in. We clocked up about 15,000 Baht if I remember correctly. That was a pleasant surprise.
Truth be told, you aren’t likely to get much in return at any point unless you marry into a wealthy family, but then setting up home here is cheaper, as is taking care of a woman post-marriage.
In Summary
Sin Sod isn't a recent cultural scam made up to dupe foreigners out of their savings; it has been around for donkey's years and is an expected part of every Thai wedding, although not everyone adhere's to the tradition.
Is it outdated? Probably.
Are some Thai brides using the tradition to extort older foreign men and secure a windfall for their family? A few. Where there is money to be made there is always someone seeking to exploit a situation.
In a nutshell, it is important for a foreign national marrying a Thai to understand this tradition, to know its symbolic meaning and what a fair Sin Sod is in a given circumstance.
That doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but whether you like it or not, marriage is about compromise – because it involves two people – so do your best to find some middle ground that makes both you and your partner feel comfortable.
Or, just call the whole thing off!
Feel free to pitch in with your experience. It would be really useful to know what married guys paid, or didn’t pay, and how the process was handled.
I would like to say a big thanks to Marisa and Noynar for contributing their cultural knowledge to help me write this post.
More Tips for Married Life
Improve Your Thai Skills:
Learning Thai makes life here easier and more fun. I use Thaipod101. It is free to get started & easy to use.
Send Money to Thailand:
Use Wise. It is fast, cheap, and gives you the market exchange rate. Me and the majority of my readers are using it.
Get Help with Pension or Investment Planning
Connect with my trusted, personal Independent Financial Advisor using this form
Last Updated on
Mitchell A. says
In my case, since I am getting married in less than two weeks I have been reading every article that I possibly could to determine that the price that I am paying is respectable but not totally insane. To start with, the woman that I am marrying is from a very high class village family which I had no idea of until I met them and they started giving me a tour of their orchards and stores (note the plural on both of those, freaked me out haha,) she has a BA in business from one of the top 3 colleges in Thailand, and has never been married or had kids.
The marriage ceremony and honeymoon themselves are as I said above, about 7,000$ and 2-3,000$ respectively. Since I wanted to have some semblance to an American wedding even though the ceremony itself is purely traditional Thai, I also proposed with a ring (after discussing with the parents of course which is rather difficult to do when neither of you speak the same language lol) and also bought a 10,000$ wedding ring. As to the question of my sin sod, her parents gave me the whole we don't need a sin sod line which typically is your invitation to offer up a sum and guess if you were right based on their look so at first I was leaning towards about 300,000 baht because I figured the 10k ring and 10k in cash equaled out to be around 600,000 baht together. But thinking on it further I decided on 400,000 baht to make sure that it would not be an embarrassment just in case the people in the village did not do the mental addition of the ring. I have found in my research that due to the wedding ring being a mainly a western tradition normally in Thai culture it is not seen and therefore outside the normal thought process. And before anyone freaks out on me for that statement that is a direct quote from my future wife's best friend.
And finally for the disclaimer haha, I know that I made a lot of generalizations about Thai thought and culture so I want to make clear that this is purely based on my experience this past year with many questions about what both mine and my fiancee's friends thoughts on the matter were. Also, I am aware that some of the readers may think of me as being ripped off, but I just want to say that I believe that it is all completely worth it to me and that I truly love her. To finish, my experience could be said to be slightly unique in that I did not meet her in Thailand like most others, I met her during high school when she visited for a year as an exchange student and afterwards we corresponded for over 10 years with daily emails, which changed to phone calls and then skype when that was invented lol, and many visits in between before deciding to marry. I really hope that this post is helpful to others that are interested in marrying. :)
Jan 03, 2014 at 7:03 pm
Guy says
I enjoyed your reasoned and educated essay on sin sod. You seem to really want to understand the Thai culture and be on good terms with your in-laws. You wrote this article prior to getting married. My question is: How did it work out?
I have met a young lady on line who is a 25 year old nanny, living near Portland, Oregon. She is very cute, university-educated, worked at a bank call center for awhile before taking the 3 month nanny course which got her the job in the US. Her English is very good. She comes from Nong Khai Provence. Her parents are middle class rice and rubber tree farmers. She has one sister who is at the university studying to be a school teacher.
I am a 69 year old man in good shape, university educated and in the upper 20% of US households in terms of wealth, but certainly not super wealthy. I guess a better way of saying it is that I am comfortable, but not rich. I relate this to you because, even though my GF and I have only known each other about 3 months, we are talking about marriage and I need your help on the issue of sin sod.
How did things with your inlaws work out? I thought that your reasoning was sound. In US dollars, I assume you paid about $22K total for the sin sod, the wedding costs, and the honeymoon. Then you added about $10k for jewelry, is this correct? Total: about $32K in US dollars.
I am very interested in how things went as I believe our GF are from the same social-economic class. Do you think that there would be more asked because I am much older?
My GF and I have briefly talked about the sin sod. Her opening statement was 5m baht, went down to 2m baht without any negotiation. After I caught my breath, I side-stepped the issue by saying that I would probably hire a negotiator to met with the parents for the sin sod talk. After all, I am older than her parents. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.
Before reading your article, I was thinking $10K plus jewelry for the sin sod. She, on the other hand, opened with $65K because she was born on Feb. 2. Her mother dreamed, therefore, that 2 M. baht ($65K) would be a good price. Thank god, she wasn't born on the 10th!
I hope that I have given you enough information to help me out. I really would like to know how your talk with the parents went. Thank you for your time.
Guy Moyer
Jun 30, 2014 at 3:32 am
Lloyd says
You arguably have around a decade of life left to live, your health and strength will decline as you get older whereas a woman who is now 25 will be entering the prime of her life.
You need to take a good look at just what sort of life you will be giving the young lady and stop thinking about yourself!
Jun 30, 2014 at 3:00 pm
Pam says
I'm sure there are some genuine Thai women, but most of the ones I've met are manipulative and extremely dull to talk to as they know nothing about anything, but they have a certain cunning when it comes to playing men for cash. I've seen so many couples - ageing farang with girl in hotpants, saying nothing to each other. I am on the bus or whatever, he speaks to me starved for conversation, she sits there fuming and plotting how to stab me. Another farang I know had a brief thing with a Thai woman, he explained his financial situation and what he could do for her, she demanded more and he ended up locking her in a bathroom in a hotel and running way. Which is not nice, but having seen how possessive Thai women can and how much screaming they can do (another silly farang friend involved with a bar girl), I don't blame him.
I really do not see the fascination. As for supporting their family to the end of time - I wouldn't do it. A friend of mine married a Cambodian and he was always forking over money to the clan and they were not appreciative, they just wanted more (he must have spent upwards of $80,000 paying off the house, creating an income scheme for the parents, the big party, Chinese New Year, scooters, housekeeper, upkeep of the drunken brother's baby after his wife left him, etc). I know Cambodian/Thai culture is not the same, but there is a similar attachment to face. My friend's wife was lovely, but the family was a nightmare. He did so much for them and they treated him very disrespectfully, and me also (as his guest). It was an eye-opener.
Oct 03, 2014 at 12:49 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jun 30, 2014 at 4:21 pm
Steve G says
And a final word... if she turns out to be everything she seems then I would not let the small matter of a few thousand quid sin sod get in the way! (lets face it 200,000 baht is less than £4k!!! and if you ain't got that what the hell are you doing thinking of getting married and trying to support a family!)
Jan 02, 2014 at 6:06 am
Steve says
Just to contribute to the debate... I was married for over 30 years and in the divorce settlement I gave my ex wife nearly £200,000 in pension funds and 60,000 from the equity in the house. I am thus left with a living income, but by no means wealthy. On retirement I will be no more than comfortable. The concept of a Bride price or sin sod (sic!) is not easy to swallow, but perhaps if I had paid that when I married I would not have subsequently paid out such a significant amount on divorce!!!
But the biggest question is how can you tell what kind of Thai lady you have met? My lady has a good but not exceptional job, her own house (paying a mortgage I think), has a masters degree and her children are grown (one married the other in final year of Uni). Oh, and she lives not far from a large University City in the Northeast. I want to believe she is genuine and interested in me for who I am not just as a walking ATM (which I would struggle to be in any case). I will obviously continue to chat with her until I am able to get out there and will update this after I have actually been to TL. Reading all these posts, Stickman's commentary and various other websites has done little to allay my fears, but hope springs eternal they say and I will continue to believe she is really genuine unless proved otherwise. I will not be rushing into anything, but will see what develops.
And a final word... if she turns out to be everything she seems then I would not let the small matter of a few thousand quid sin sod get in the way! (lets face it 200,000 baht is less than £4k!!! and if you ain't got that what the hell are you doing thinking of getting married and trying to support a family!)
Jan 02, 2014 at 5:51 am
TheThailandLife says
Jan 02, 2014 at 6:17 am
RK says
Marriage ceremony at home in a small village - no sin sod. Could not be happier.
Dec 31, 2013 at 6:05 pm
Bangers says
Dec 28, 2013 at 5:16 pm
jimmy soul says
My fiance and I have been together for 2 years. She is a university educated, former Thai pop star, fluent in English. Her family are cool people and have never asked me for anything. They are not rich, but both parents have government retirement income and some land and 2 homes. My Fiance makes from 70-90k /month working with me.
I am certainly not a rich guy but I'm not broke either, so I wasnt totally against the idea of sin sot but I didnt really know what to expect either. So just yesterday here is how it went: We went to her parents house to get their blessing....I spoke Thai with them the entire time(not fluent but getting there)...this is a big deal for them, they say the fact that I can communicate with them shows I care about their country and culture. First I spoke, telling them I wanted to be engaged to their daughter, what a fantastic woman she is, our future plans etc. At this point the mother asks questions about my family etc. They basically say they think I'm a good guy and they accept me. At this time I ask them how much do they want for sin sot. Mom says whatever I want to give is fine, but she does ask 5 baht of gold and a ring for the ceremony(buying tommorow!) After talking it over with my girl the night before she says 300k should be fine. Mom says this is fine.....but knowing a little bit about the face thing I offered to show 1 million at the wedding.... 700k will be returned to me directly after the wedding. We then offered a gift to mom and dad and went out for lunch.
I can say this....have the sin sod conversation with the parents BEFORE you get legally married at the amphoe.
So I guess I was lucky, I got a great gal.......sorry but if you mess around and wanna marry a scheming bar girl you are asking for trouble.
Dec 23, 2013 at 5:48 pm
TheThailandLife says
Dec 23, 2013 at 8:29 pm
Raymond says
“...be advised even by strangers, who have proved what sufferings await you, and shake your hands of this mad undertaking."
The quote above was a warning given to Anna Leonowans before taking a job as a governess at the Siamese court in the mid-19th century. Her book, of course, was the inspiration for “Anna and the King.” Her memoirs should be required reading for every farang who comes to Thailand. The Thais hate her and the book is banned. Do you know why? Because she describes them perfectly.
Let me say this straight out: If you are a farang, you don’t have to pay sin soht. Let me say this again: If you are a farang, you don’t have to pay sin soht. Do you know why you don’t have to pay? You are not Thai.
In the past, when a Thai couple got married, the wife’s parents would donate land to the couple, and the sin soht money donated by the groom’s parents was used to build a house or start a household. Or the money was returned to the couple when they had their first baby. It was money to be held in a kind of escrow for the couple. It wasn’t used to support the wife’s parents. And if the wife caused the marriage to break up, the man had every right to get his money/property back. People need to remember that Thailand is a developing country. The notion of throwing around cash as part of sin soht is a fairly new phenomena. Just as in the case of whores, farang pay far too much money for the type of women they are procuring for marriage. Of course, paying something for nothing is always too much when you should be getting it for free. Also, this whole notion of paying a dowry for a Thai woman is something akin to Thais celebrating Halloween or Christmas. Paying a dowry for a woman is a Chinese tradition. It isn’t even Thai. So basically you have a bunch of farang guys running around trying to be Chinese when they think they are being Thai. Pretty fxxxing absurd.
If your Thai woman is reasonable and understanding (which is usually never) she will neither expect nor will demand sin soht-- and neither will her parents. But unfortunately, there are some Thai women, mostly whores and gold diggers, who will take advantage of a farang’s ignorance of Thai culture in order to con them out of some money.
I asked a Thai female friend of mine about this issue. This is what she said: “Yeah, there are many stupid farang out there. They marry these bad girls who tell that they have to pay sin soht just to get some money out of them. Foreigners don’t have to pay if they don’t want to. They can, but they are not required to. It is really up to them.” I asked her: “Did your dad pay?” She laughed: “He paid, but not much. And he got it back.” I asked: “Do you support your parents?” She laughed and said: “Support my parents? They are both doctors. They have other businesses on the side. They have thousands of rai of land. They still give me money and I still live at home. I have great parents.” I asked: “If you got married, would you expect your husband to financially support your parents in their old age?” She said: “Why you ask these questions? You want to get married?” Laughter. “If anything happened to my parents, I have my own money to take care of them.” Of course, my friend is from the higher echelons of Thai society, but of all the modern, educated Thai women with real jobs that I know, none of them cares about sin soht, and none of them expect farang to pay.
If a Thai woman ever tells you that you must pay sin soht to her because it is Thai culture, especially if she is a whore, run like the wind. Here is a little piece of advice to farang if they want to save themselves a lot of grief and heartache: Dump any Thai girl who says, “If you don’t give me money, you don’t love me.” Your Thai woman neither loves nor respects you if she expects a cash bonus just for the privilege of being in her presence (or out of her presence in a foreign country or on the internet). Indeed, a farang should never make an important life decision based on a Thai woman crying or throwing a fit. This is a trick that they use to manipulate men. Above all, don’t ever let a Thai girl give you an ultimatum. If she says, “It is me or the highway.” You always take the highway. Thai chicks are master manipulators and guilt trip artists. Once a Thai chick starts to give a farang a song and dance about his Thai cultural (financial) obligations towards her and her parents, he should run and run away fast, because her only purpose is to con him out of some dough. You don’t need to feel guilty or like a cheapskate because you didn’t fall for your future wife’s manipulation. And if you want to pay sin soht to give your in-laws' face, or to give your wife face, or to look like a big shot in front of your Thai wedding guests, do yourself a favor and forget about it, because nobody will care once the wedding is over. The Buddha taught that nothing is permanent. Whatever goodwill you think you’ve scored by doling out tons of money and gold for your bride won’t last. It won’t earn you love, face, or respect. If she tries to convince you otherwise, that is an illusion your chick has created so that she can look good and feel clever in front of others about the big fish she has just caught. As the Thais say: “Marnya ying lem roi gueen.” (A wise woman has a hundred plows.) The Thai women who ask for sin soht straight out are the honest ones, however. Hey, if they are greedy, it’s better to know up front then after the wedding, right? Though there are some Thai women who are so ingenious that they can get their farang to pay without even having to ask. Usually Thai women will hint around a subject (usually pertaining to money) yet will never come out and directly state what they want. Even though this is a characteristic of most women, Thai women have perfected it into an art form. Thai women can out-Freud Freud in the techniques of reverse psychology. When a Thai chick says, “Don’t give me money,” she means give me a lot of money. When a Thai chick says, “You don’t love me” she wants you to prove your love by giving her money. When a Thai chick says, “I don’t care, go take another girl,” she means don’t fxxk other chicks. When a Thai chick says, “You butterfly man,” she wants you to spend your money only on her. When a Thai chick says, “I don’t like Thai man,” she means she is fxxxing half the motorcycle taxi drivers on the street corner. When a Thai chick calls you “keenio” she wants you to prove that you are not cheap by giving her money. When a Thai chick says, “He only friend,” she is fxxxing her friend every which way. When a Thai chick says, “I love you. I want to marry you,” she means she wants you to send money every month. Thai chicks are so transparent, but most farang have their heads so far up their asses that they can’t see it. If farang want to have power over Thai women, listen to them carefully, acknowledge what they say, but don’t ever react. If you listen to this piece of advice, you’ll have a lot of power.
There is a big distinction between sin soht and a Thai woman’s obligations to her parents.
Let me make this point loud and clear so that farang get it: Sin Soht is not meant for the support of the wife’s parents. Let me say this again: SIN SOHT IS NOT INTENDED FOR THE SUPPORT OF THE WIFE’S PARENTS. Any Thai chick who tells you that you are obligated to support her parents because it is Thai culture is making a fool out of you. In Thai culture, katunyu and bun khun are what drive personal relationships. Katunyu means gratitude for one’s parents, teachers, patrons and monks for supporting them in life. Bun Khun is the obligation that a Thai has to her parents, teachers, patrons, etc for supporting her in life. A Thai woman will support her parents because she is katunyu and is paying off her bun khun debt to them; however, she never repays her bun khun to her parents entirely, so no amount of wealth your shower upon your country bumpkin in-laws will ever clear your wife’s debt to them. Get it straight: Your wife’s bun khun is not your responsibility. A farang doesn’t have bun khun or katunyu with his Thai in-laws, especially if his wife is a whore. What do you have to be grateful to your in-laws for? That they raised their daughter to be a whore and a gold digger. Regardless, farang never benefit from this cultural katunyu/bun khun, so they shouldn’t be ruled by it or have to pay for it. And even if you bent over backwards for your Thai in-laws, do you really think they will ever feel a bit of gratitude for all the things that you did for them? I seriously doubt it. I bet the most you will ever get from them is a big, dopey shit-eating grin. If you get satisfaction from giving your in-laws lots of money in exchange for big, dopey shit-eating grins, then by all means, do it. In a way, it makes sense—in freaky farang, Bizarro world. If a farang can give $50-100 to an ugly Thai whore for bad sex, then it makes sense in that world to give her parents ten of thousands of dollars (or euros) for insincere, betel nut stained grins.
There is a big distinction between Buddhist morality and Thai culture. A Thai woman who cheats and lies to get money to support her family is a bad Buddhist, but supposedly is a good Thai daughter if she does it to fulfill her obligations to her family. Buddhism doesn’t condone prostitution. Buddhism doesn’t condone cheating money out of people. Many Thais, on the other hand, condone both. Have you ever noticed how a Thai woman will always defend her lack of scruples with the lame excuse of supporting her family? To me, that is sick. Would you let your sister become a whore to support your mother? Would you let your daughter become a whore to support you? And why would any man marry a woman who would stoop so low as to become a prostitute in order to support their children? In the West, mothers like this would go to jail and their children would be taken away from them. Further, billions of poor women across the planet neither resort to prostitution nor scam foreigners to take care of their families. So why should Thai women be an exception to the rule? Besides, Thailand is not a poor country. It is only a poorly managed country.
Not all Thai women scam men for money. In fact, I think the opposite is true. Historically, Thai women have always been an important part of the economy. In comparison to other civilizations, Thai women have had more economic freedom than their sisters in the West and the rest of Asia. The 1950’s American family archetype--the nuclear families with the June Cleaver stay at home moms-- never existed in Thailand. Believe it or not, more Thai women get university degrees than Thai men, and Thai women have always been a large part of the labor force. Look around you. Wherever you are in Thailand, women are working. It has always been this way. They work hard and for long hours, making relatively little money. Most Thai women take pride in their work. Normal, well-educated Thai women are responsible about their finances and plan for the future. Don’t let the mentally screwed up, money grubbing Thai chicks convince you otherwise. Further, Thailand is at full employment with a 1-3 % unemployment rate. There is no reasonable excuse for Thai women to become prostitutes or scam men out of money—unless it is out of greed and laziness.
I don’t think Thai women are the root of the problem when it comes to money issues between them and farang. If there weren’t stupid men out there willing to shell out money for them every time they shook their little asses, they would have no reason to prostitute themselves or to scam men for money in the first place. Whores and the gold diggers would have absolutely no power without your money. Many whoremongers across the globe probably passed out from that last sentence. They will say, “Gee whiz, if I don’t give my whore or Thai girlfriend money, she will stop calling me “hansum man,” she will stop having sex with me, and she will probably not want to marry me.” This is what I call the farang’s paradox: A farang tries to buy his Thai woman’s affection and body with cash payments, gold and sin soht, yet deludes himself into thinking that his Thai girlfriend or bride is in the relationship with him for love, his good looks and charming personality, then after the relationship fails he blames the girl when he finds out she was only after his money. And farang wonder why their relationships with Thai women fail. Maybe it’s because they suffer from cognitive dissonance. If you really want to know what your Thai girlfriend or wife thinks of you, don’t give her any money. That really is the ultimate acid test. Thai woman don’t need your money. They may want your money, but they certainly don’t need it to survive. If Thailand’s sex industry and the farang it caters to disappeared from the face of the Earth tomorrow, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, because those Thai women who sell their bodies and scam men for money would certainly find other things to do with their lives, just like the vast majority of Thai women who don’t prostitute themselves.
I think that the reason why prostitution is so ubiquitous in Thailand is because Thai women have been using sex and manipulation for centuries in order to get what they want. Thai women really see their sexuality as a powerful tool-- and in many cases their only tool. If that tool is going to make them some money or get them some power, so be it. They know that both Thai and farang men will jump through hoops for their pussies. And the evidence for this is quite obvious: Hundreds of thousands of men travel across the globe to Thailand every year just to pay for the privilege of having sex with Thai women; and the Thai pussy market for Thai men is even much more massive than the one for foreigners. So Thai women have been conditioned to think that their pussies are made of gold and that men are willing to give up their sanity and pay any price for that gold. On this note: See Humphrey Bogart’s performance in the movie, “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.” Personally, I think Thai women and their pussies are highly over-rated, but what am I going to believe: The marketplace for Thai women or my own lying eyes.
Has there ever been a national crisis so dire in Thailand that there was mass famine and homelessness? The answer is never. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, prostitution is not a job of last resort for Thai women to survive, but rather it’s a vocation for the lazy, the uneducated, and for those who want non-essential material possessions that they can’t otherwise afford. Those farang who believe that those girls they see working in the red light districts or working the internet scamming farang can’t do anything else to make legitimate money are simply deluded. Thai women who whore around and scam foreigners out of money do so out of choice. Thai women can choose to work for 150 baht a day cleaning toilets, choose to make 1,500 baht a night banging fat farang, or choose to sweet talk chumps jerking off on the internet into sending them free money to pay for their lavish lifestyles. Let’s be honest: Most Thai women who go after farang are not the cream of the crop; actually, they are the bottom of the barrel. And these women are perfectly aware of this fact, which is why they chase gullible farang for a quick, easy buck instead of chasing tuk tuk drivers and security guards without a satang to their names. This type of woman can choose to marry a Thai man who makes no more than 5,000 baht as a farmer or motorcycle taxi or chose to scam 50,000 baht a month from some dumb Brit (or American or Aussie or Canadian) from overseas. If you are the type of guy who thinks it is acceptable to treat women as commodities, I will let you in on a few trade secrets. Anybody can get a hot (and I mean exceptionally hot, not a refugee from the Planet of the Apes from Nana or CM2) Thai girlfriend in Bangkok for 5,000 baht a month, and upcountry it is even less. Anybody can get a fresh girl right off the farm for a lifetime payment of 40,000 baht. These are the prices that Thai men pay. Of course, you’re free to over spend your hard earned money anyway that you wish, but once you willingly hand over your money to a Thai whore or a charlatan, you really have given up your right to complain. I know there are many guys out there who will be screaming at this submission: “But you don’t understand. I was duped.” If you don’t want to be duped, don’t give Thai women any money. It really is a very simple solution. Any guy who makes cash payments the foundation of his relationship with Thai women is really setting himself for disaster. And farang are not doing Thai women any favors by conditioning them to see money and the distorted notion of “take care” as the only cornerstones of a loving and committed relationship. The farang who really are the worst of the lot are the ones who give money to Thai women just for the heck of it. Believe me, there are many morons who do this. I was talking to this girl just the other day at Starbucks. Do you know what she does for a living? She hunts the discos and the internet for men who are willing to take care of her—and she is far from being hot. She doesn’t do anything except give these idiots some song and dance about how poor she is. If you can fork out 150 baht for coffee everyday and 1,500 baht for a wireless internet connection card, you are not living from hand to mouth. Nevertheless, she has morons on the internet sending her money all the time. One guy sent her 20,000 baht a few weeks ago—and they have never even met. It’s unbelievable, yet it happens. It really amazes me that there are some guys who are afraid of using their credit cards online, yet will send money to stupid Thai chicks they met in dodgy chat rooms after a few hours. Then there are the guys who send monthly stipends of up to 60,000 baht a month to Thai chicks for absolutely no reason at all (and these are probably the same assholes who think it is immoral to tip service people who actually work hard for a living). I am starting to think that these farang have a money fetish and sexually get off giving money to Thai women for free. I am serious about this. There should be brothels in Thailand where women just sit around and wait for farang to come in and hand money to them for free. Oh, I forgot, they have that already. It’s called a bar fine.
Do you guys know what kind of corrupting influence this is having on Thai women? It’s like you are creating a welfare state for them. These chicks think they are entitled to your money just because they send a few sweet words or tears your way. Trust me when I tell you that these Thai chicks are not grateful when you throw money at them; instead, they have become conditioned by this type of moronic behavior and expect more of the same from every idiot farang who crosses their path. Do farang really get that there are hundreds of Thai women working the internet everyday searching for stupid farang who give away their money for free? And the only reason that these women do it is because farang make it possible for them.
There are two Thailands.
There is the legitimate Thailand. In legitimate Thailand, Thai women don’t sucker men out of money. This is the Thailand where women don’t see men as ATM machines. This is the Thailand where Thai women don’t con men out of paying sin soht. This is the Thailand where Thai women have their own jobs and businesses and don’t have to rely on men for their financial success and stability. This is the Thailand where the parents of Thai women don’t want their daughters to become prostitutes or marnyaying. This is the Thailand where parents encourage their daughters to get educated and be successful in their own right. This is the Thailand where Thai parents don’t see a farang as a walking ATM machine. This is the Thailand where the Thai parents actually do everything in their power to support their daughter in having a successful life and marriage. This is the Thailand where love is more important to women than money. This Thailand exists, but it won’t be easy to find in the red-light districts of Sukhumvit or Pattaya or on Bangkokchat.org or on Thailandfriends.com.
There is an illegitimate Thailand also. In illegitimate Thailand, Thai women go to bars, work in brothels and massage parlors, and chat on the internet in order to sucker men out of money. That is their job. I know the sex tourist/sexpat conventional wisdom believes that these girls enter the whore rackets in order to meet and marry farang for love. Think again. These Thai women use their sex organs rather than their brain organ to financially succeed in life. This is the Thailand where the daughter has to sell herself in order to pay for her father’s drinking binges and her mother’s gambling debts. This is the Thailand where the women are too lazy or too stupid to do well in school. This is the Thailand where the Thai woman decided to get back at all men, because her father molested her. This is the Thailand where the woman wants a shiny new mobile or a car, but doesn’t have the patience to earn it in her own right or wants to compete with her friends, materialistically. This is the Thailand where the woman goes looking for stupid farang in order to solve all her financial problems. This is the Thailand where a woman goes looking for a farang because she is having an existential crisis and wants to escape Thailand. This is the Thailand where the woman looks for the sugar daddy farang because her real father was a real dick and was never there for her. This is the Thailand where the parents want their daughters to be their 401k plan. This is the Thailand where parents manipulate and guilt trip their daughters into selling their bodies so that they can live high on the hog. This is the Thailand where parents and daughters both see farang (and their sin soht) as winning lottery numbers. This is the Thailand where a Thai woman equates “love” with financial security for her, her parents, her extended family, her mangda, and her water buffalo.
Unfortunately, many farang get caught up in illegitimate Thailand, thinking all Thai people are just the same, but the fact is Sukhumvit Road, Pattaya, and the creepy internet chat rooms are really the poorest reflections of Thailand. But hey, if you are going to look for a girlfriend or a wife in brothels, right-light districts, and dubious web sites, what do you really expect to get other than lies and deception. If you go looking for love in all the wrong places, you will find it, but ask yourself: at what price.
Many farang actually think they are adhering to the rules of Thai culture by paying sin soht to a whore. Who convinced them of this bullshit? If you really want to play by the rules of Thai culture, you shouldn’t be paying anything, not one satang, to your whore. Instead, she should be on her hands and knees kissing your feet, thanking you for saving her from a whore’s life. Ask yourself: How much would a Thai man pay for my whore? When you think about this, really consider her black skin, her tattoos, her drug habit, her stretch marks, and her saggy A cups. A whore is spoiled goods, so a Thai man would pay nothing. What Thai man in his right mind would pay sin soht for a prostitute? Not one. If farang really want to play by the Thai rules, then for one, don’t marry whores, and two, don’t pay sin soht to them or their parents. Why do farang think Thai women enter the farang-oriented prostitution game for? Really, think about it. Could it perhaps be for the satisfaction of rubbing the fat bellies and bald heads of ugly, old men with no brains? Perhaps not. The reason they enter that game is because no self-respecting Thai man would touch them with a ten foot poll--except those pimps who are making money off of them. Why would any farang with any dignity and self-respect want to pay for Thai men’s rejects? Essentially, that is what you are getting.
According to Thai culture, one should not marry beneath his social status. Actually, a Thai woman should bring the man status. She should bring something to the marriage. That is real Thai culture. What does your whore bring to the marriage besides bastard children, a bad nose job, tattoos, stretch marks and venereal diseases? Does your whore bring marketable skills, education, morality, money, a good family, what? She should bring something. She shouldn’t be sponging off you, taking advantage of your stupidity and your desperation. Let’s be honest: A farang man would never give a farang woman tens of thousands of dollars or euros for a dowry. So what is the point in giving it to a Thai woman? Is it to feel like a big shot? Is it really out of love or is there some pay off that you expect from it? If you pay it, is your wife going to fxxk any better, clean any better, cook any better? If you pay it, will she be more kind, more loyal, and more loving if you hadn’t paid it? I think the answer to these questions is no. Farang have a choice: They can either take personal responsibility for their actions or they can write pathetic stories to Stickman about how they were victimized by Thai women. If you don’t want to be a victim, listen to the Beatles: Money can’t buy you love.
Let me give you a little historical background on the role of women in Thai society.
In the past, Thais had a very rigid feudal system that I will call Sakdina. Under Sakdina, every free Thai man had a Sakdina number (higher the rank, higher the number) and/or a royal title—Khun, Luang, Chao, Chao Phrya, etc. Since Thai women were considered their husband’s or father’s property, they didn’t have titles—except if they were a member of the royal family (princess) or a wife of a noble (khunying). Back in those days, Thai men had many wives and concubines. Those women were informally ranked according to the rank of their fathers and their mothers. So if a woman was from a high-ranking family, she was a full wife entitled to more status and privileges than the other wives. In a Thai man’s household, all women would be ranked sequentially according to their place on the sakdina totem poll. If the woman was a daughter of a peasant, she would be ranked at the bottom with no power or privilege. Why is this important? It is important because the feudal mentality still exists in Thailand.
In the good old days, when a Thai man married a woman from a family of high rank, he would benefit from his relationship with his wife’s family, and his wife’s family would gain from the relationship as well. The two families would share wealth, land, skills, and political connections. It was a symbiotic relationship based upon mutual benefit, which was why Thais preferred and still prefer to marry within their own class. In the past, some members of Thai nobility would marry into wealthy Chinese merchant families in order to gain access to capital and in turn the Chinese would get access to the court and receive favorable business concessions. After the coup in 1932, the families of military and police generals would inter-marry to secure political alliances. Today, most noveau-riche Thai-Chinese families inter-marry amongst each other. If you were a part of the Thai elite, you didn’t marry beneath your station. The notion purported by some of Stickman’s readers that men are supposed to raise women up and give them status is not supported by Thai culture. Even today, Thai men don’t go looking for poor women to marry. They would never marry hookers and put them up on a pedestal as first wife. It would never happen. It is the woman who gives the man face and status—not the other way around. Even if you are a multi-millionaire farang and have a hooker for a wife, it won’t matter how much money you or your wife has, the only thing the Thais will notice is that your wife is a hooker. And from that moment on, you will be known as the stupid farang millionaire who married an ugly hooker. That will be your identity.
During feudal times, if a man married a woman of a higher class than himself, he stood to benefit, yet if he married beneath him, he would lose his status. When a slave (in Thai, ka) or a peasant (in Thai, phrai) gave his daughter to a lord (in Thai, nai) to be part of his harem, the family might get something from that arrangement, but it certainly wouldn’t be tons of gold or property. The daughter, however, would become a low ranked concubine. Her duties were to fxxk the lord on command and be a slave to all the other wives and concubines. Whatever the arrangement was, it was up to the nai’s discretion. This slave girl was expendable, however. If she pissed off the nai, she would be sent back to her family in disgrace. Let me make this clear: The slave or phrai didn’t dictate to the nai the parameters of the relationship. In the modern sense, as a farang, you are the one with the nai status, and your whore is just lucky to even know you. As a farang, you are the one with all the money and power; therefore, it is you who should decide the parameters of your relationship. It is you who should decide who, when and what you are going to pay.
Since a farang has money, or perceived to have money, he will always, always outrank any whore---even though she has brought down his social status in the eyes of Thai society. Nonetheless, within the boundaries of his own family, he is the master of the domain. The figurative slaves and peasants in his new family shouldn’t be dictating to him the rules of the game. They have no leverage. They have no capital to support him. They have no social standing to help him make it in Thailand. They don’t have anything to offer him, and because of this, he shouldn’t have to pay one satang for sin soht. Instead, a whore should be thanking her lucky stars that somebody is willing to love her and her family—especially with all her baggage. They should be groveling on their hands and knees in his presence. But it seems like most farang just let the slaves rule the plantation, when, in fact, it should be the other way around.
Sakdina still exists in Thailand, but it’s a cultural rather than a legal system now. When you hear Thais talking about Thai culture they are usually referring to the sakdina mentality. Except for the Royal Family and monks, nobody is ranked according to royal/feudal title anymore. After the 1932 revolution that toppled the absolute monarchy, sakdina and royal titles were officially abolished. Actually some titles are still given out, but they are given for public service and don’t carry any real political power. But now, a Thai’s social status is determined by class, education, region of origin, skin color, wealth, title, and profession. Thais rarely marry outside their class, and they are extremely dumbfounded when wealthy, educated farang marry and pay outrageous sin soht to lowly whores and lower class Thai women with no education, social status, money, property, or power. And Thais are even more shocked when stupid farang let their whores rule the roost. Let me make this clear so you all get it: If you are marrying somebody beneath your social status, your wife and her family have no right to make any demands from you. They are not bringing anything to the table. In Thailand, marriage is an alliance, a two-way street. If out of the kindness of your heart you decide to raise your wife’s family up then, according to Thai culture, they should be eternally grateful and obligated towards you instead of taking advantage of your good nature and robbing you for all your worth. In other others words, they should give you the respect of a patron, which is essentially what you are, rather than treat you as if you were a magic buffalo who shits money and gold on demand.
Since farang have never been part of the official or cultural Sakdina system (except in a few rare circumstances) they shouldn’t have to pay sin soht. Since farang families rarely enter into mutually beneficial relationships with Thai families, they shouldn’t have to pay sin soht. Since farang will never be integral to the Thai social system and never be full participants of Thai cultural norms and values, they shouldn’t have to pay sin soht. Don’t let your Thai woman dictate to you about your responsibilities to Thai culture when that culture isn’t going to do anything for you except cost you money. Most Thai women just pull the Thai culture card out of their butts just to get you to do something for them on your dime, or they use it to avoid making a rational intelligent argument.
The reason why Thais hide behind Thai culture and face and avoid confrontation is because they essentially have no integrity. Many farang think Thais don’t have the word integrity in their vocabulary. Actually, they have two words for it: burunaphop and sutjavaja. Anyway, when Thais want to avoid responsibility for not keeping their commitments (phantasunya), they always hide behind face (na) and culture (prophenee; it means custom, but wattanatham, the word for culture, wouldn’t be the appropriate word for what I mean.) The real reason why Thais never want to confront anything is because they don’t ever want to be responsible (mee khwam rap pid chop) for their shitty integrity. Think about it: If you had integrity and were a responsible person, would you really give a shit about face and confrontation? Of course not, because you would have nothing to hide. I’ll let you guys in a little secret about Thai woman. If you ever catch one in a lie, watch how she reacts, because the way she reacts will tell you everything about her true personality. For example, if your girlfriend is caught in a lie and blames others, then you know that she is the type who never takes personal responsibility for anything. If your girlfriend denies telling a lie, even though the evidence is staring her in the face, then you will know this girl is deceptive in everything she says and does. If you catch your girlfriend ever lying about having other men, then you know she has a bunch of guys on the side. If your Thai chick lies to you, and she says she does it to spare your feelings, then you know she has done some pretty nasty shit to hurt your feelings.
The only reason people lie is because they want to avoid being responsible for the truth. The reason Thais lie all the time is because they hate taking responsibility for anything, and as a culture, they have accepted non-confrontation and cover-up as the best way to deal with lies rather than being responsible and owning up to the truth. Nobody has perfect integrity. As human beings, we all make mistakes. But people have a choice: one can be committed to integrity, fail at it sometimes, and take responsibility for those failings; or, one can be committed to a life of dishonesty, deceit, cover-up, and irresponsibility. Which choice do you think Thais mostly make? Call me a traditionalist, but I think marriage is a lifetime commitment. If I were to get married, beauty, brains, and sex would fall far behind integrity on my priority list. What I don’t get about farang in Thailand is that it seems to me that integrity is the thing they care about the most--only after the relationship fails. From my own life experience I have learned that people who are dishonest usually remain dishonest and never reform their wicked ways. So if your little Thai darling is a con artist, I seriously doubt all your cash donations to her will transform her into Mother Theresa.
I have noticed that when I first meet a Thai woman, the first thing she does is check out my social status. She’ll ask me about where I come from, about what I do, about where I live, about my college degrees, about how many employees work under me, do I have a car, and do I own or rent, etc. I used to think: Who does this chick think she is? She really has got some nerve trying to size me up. But then I realized that these questions shouldn’t be about me, they should be about the girl. Why is that I have to prove my worth to her? She should prove herself to me. If a Thai woman is going to judge your human worth based on these superficial things, you have every right to turn the tables on her, and you have Thai culture to defend you. For example, don’t let some dumpy looking secretary from Nakhon Nowhere with her worthless degree from Ramkhamhaeng University who makes 5,000 baht a month working at some crappy Thai company make judgments about you. Farang shouldn’t be bending over backwards for these chicks. A dumpy secretary with no Thai prospects for marriage and no money has no right to judge a farang or make demands from him. And the whores who think their pussies are made out of gold are even more ridiculous. A Thai whore is the last person in the world to judge or demand from anybody, especially since her international reputation is barely one notch above an Al Qaeda terrorist. There is nothing more absurd in this world than a Thai whore who thinks her shit don’t stink, expecting every farang who comes her way to hand the world over to her on a silver platter—and trust me, this is how they really think. Instead of tap dancing for his whore, farang should remember that her worth only comes from whatever he is willing to pay; otherwise, she is worthless. When I say worthless, I don’t mean to sound cruel. I’m just being honest. In real Thai society, they would have no power at all. They’d be maids, rice farmers, nannies, waitresses, wives of construction workers and tuk tuk drivers, or slinging som tam on the streets. I think farang need to realize that they have a lot of power, because you are the only thing that gives these whores any power. What would your whores and Thai girlfriends do without you? Would they ever have their mobiles, their drugs, their mangdas, their motorbikes, their clothes, and their vacations? The answer is no. So on top of all that, why should you have to give them a cash bonus, gold, and a lifetime pension to their parents? I think Thais are friendly, but they are the most ungrateful people I have ever come across in my life. And the reason they are ungrateful is because nobody ever makes them accountable for anything. So stop giving money to these chicks when they don’t deserve it and have done nothing to earn it. Farang need to cut it out, really. Stop giving money to these chicks for free. It just makes them spoiled, arrogant, and ungrateful. Farang will start to have a lot of power once they realize that they are entitled to call the shots and make all the rules in their relationships with Thai women. When farang start exercising their power, Thai women will stop treating them as though they are magic buffalo that shit money and gold on demand.
If you are a farang who wants to marry a Thai whore, here is the sin soht rule: You do not have to pay sin soht for her. Not one single satang. She is spoiled goods. Her chances of finding a Thai man to marry and getting sin soht are zero. Your whore knows she is spoiled goods and her family knows she is spoiled goods. You are an idiot if you pay and they know you are an idiot if you pay. By the term spoiled goods, I mean two things: First, if your Thai girlfriend is not a virgin and works as a whore, there is no need to negotiate sin soht, because there is nothing to negotiate over. Second, she is spoiled goods because she is a disgraced whore without any redeeming social value. If a Thai man doesn’t have to pay sin soht for women like this, then you as a farang don’t have to pay either. If you think you are obligated to pay, you’re wrong. If your whore says you are required to pay, she is lying.
Farang often wonder what they should pay for a normal girl of the same class as themselves. This is my advice to you. It is simple and reasonable. And it won’t cause you to sell out your pride and dignity. You fork out no more than what you would pay for the engagement ring and the wedding ring for a Western wife. There could be some value to sin soht paid in kind if it used for the right intentions. I see nothing wrong in using it for a first house or saving it as a nest age for the first child, but that is something you decide together as a couple. But don’t pay it to make your in-laws look like big shots or use it to pay off their debts or because your wife gave you a guilt trip.
As for the wedding, the cost, traditionally, is recouped by the guest’s contributions.
Again, I want to make this obvious point crystal clear: If you are a farang, you are not Thai, and because you are not Thai, you don’t get the benefits of being Thai. Since you don’t live by Thai rules and cultural obligations you don’t have to pay sin soht. It is neither your duty nor your obligation. If you decide to ignore me and have committed yourself to paying it, pay only what the woman would be worth as if though she was marrying a Thai man. In other words, don’t pay according to what you can afford, but only pay according to what value she brings to the marriage. If your fiancé is a whore, you pay nothing.
Jul 09, 2013 at 11:21 pm
Terry says
My GF is 50 yrs old, has little education, is unemployed, has been married and has 2 sons in college. She still thinks I should pay a sinsod. Does this sound right to anyone???
Jun 22, 2013 at 3:02 am
TheThailandLife says
Jun 22, 2013 at 11:17 pm
OzW says
Long story, I will try not to ramble too much :)
A few years back I registered on a few international dating sites, curious that maybe my special lady wasn't in Australia. One site was Asian Dating which opened my eyes to a whole world of women seemingly desperate to find what I am now labelled as "a farang" (on the first day I press 'visible' on my profile I received over 100 contacts). Despite this realisation I still believed that it couldn't possibly be all women (but quickly learned I had to be careful). I chatted with a few women around the world (not only SE Asia) for a few months then one day I decided I would restrict my search criteria as specific as possible on every site I registered (some of which couldn't be done by the website, some had to be done by simply reading the profile). This narrowed down the search to a few hundred women from I think six or seven countries. Then I remembered it's not just about me. It's important they are genuinely interested in who I am. Thankfully some websites offer the function to do reverse matching (i.e. search for women that have specified criteria that I match). Interesting exercise but I still had some doubts about the potential for real love using this method. After this reverse filtering the search results came down to around 20. After a few days of non-action I decided it was time to send these ladies a message. So I came online and started drafting what to write then suddenly received a live chat message from one the ladies I was interested in. From a simple chat in the beginning we both wanted more. We chatted for a year and it was just beautiful so it was time to meet.
So, a year ago today I came to Thailand, knowing little about Thailand and still somewhat skeptical that online dating was for me. As a vegetarian, her buying me chicken feet soup in Udon Thani for our first meal together is now a night we both look back at and laugh about often.
Over the first month my skepticism started to disappear and I started to become ready to open my heart again after more than three years being single. But what the hell was I doing? I can't speak Thai, I know very little about the culture and I have a dog, a rental lease, friends, family and a permanent job soon to be promoted back in Australia.
To this I say "where there is a will there is a way".
So the research began about visas etc. Thankfully I have been able to secure legitimate employment here which took me some time to realise how fortunate I am to do so. Now after three trips back and forth I am now here 'semi-permanently' (with visa/immigration commitments of course).
Last Friday a special night with a special restaurant involved a diamond ring being taken from my pocket and a true love relationship being taken to the next step. A loving relationship that we both had our doubts about in the beginning.
Naturally, my research also included numerous forums noting bad experiences other guys had had. Money, greedy parents, etc. etc. (I suspect you've all heard/seen it also). To that I have to say that it certainly does seem that in many cases there is a direct correlation with "the extent of effort by the farang to respect culture and fit in" and "the resulting dilemnas that seem to frequent farangs coming here for a relationship".
If I had a dollar for every farang that told me "they were taken to the cleaners" but they couldn't even count to ten in Thai, well you know what I am saying. Again I point out I am not suggesting this is everyone!
This brings me to my somewhat long-winded point. Culture. As a non-christian, non-religious westerner tradition is more important to me than culture. However when it comes to a wedding I believe it's more than just tradition and culture to consider. Of course there are two people who have the ultimate say here. Although I have made it quite clear to my fiance that there are six peoples wishes that must be considered here (four parents and us).
A cross cultural relationship is rarely simple or easy, but it can also be very exciting and rewarding if the effort is made to develop mutual respect. Yes, as farangs we must respect sin sod. Also, we must respect our own culture. But we must also be sure we are not being taken for a ride.
We have discussed sin sod and her view is that her parents (probably her dominant mother) will discuss this us in coming weeks. She is more concerned about the perception or social status aspects. The family is a rubber farming family although her father was also a teacher. They are not rich but they do own land. She is not a girl who wants money from me. She is a masters degree qualified teacher with a new vios and despite me earning about four times her salary, insists she pays for dinner often.
I asked her to tell me what is reasonable, what she would be insulted by, what she would be surprised at and what she wanted. Her view of reasonable was between 100,000 and 300,000 depending on the criteria which was been well noted in this forum already. What she would be insulted by would be to upset her mother. What she would be surprised at is if I pay more than her mother asks for. And what she wanted was for her mother and me to have that discussion.
I made it very clear that my culture must also be respected. However when it comes to my parents wishes, they simply want me to be happy. I won't be pushing the line "in our culture her parents should pay" in order to save money. However I will be mentioning it politely. She has re-assured me that this is certainly ok and that she believes her mother will be unlikely to ask for a crazy amount.
Although I can't help being a little anxious!
Jun 14, 2013 at 12:01 am
TheThailandLife says
Jun 16, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Pravin says
I know it's hardly normal procedure but just reading this thread makes you realise that sometimes, with some Thai ladies, things aren't normal!
Good luck, David!
Jun 01, 2013 at 3:01 am