You will find a huge amount of misleading information online regarding Sin Sod, and conflicting experiences can be found plastered all over forums and blogs.
So, when a foreigner wants to marry his Thai girlfriend and the inevitable subject of Sin Sod arises, it is no surprise that he becomes confused over what he should be paying and why he is expected to pay it.
Part of the problem is that Thai women often don’t explain the concept of Sin Sod very well, which isn’t at all surprising, considering that for them it’s a standard tradition and an age-old part of Thai culture.
They just get on with it. It's normal. They've seen it a hundred times at weddings since childhood. And like traditions the world over, some people simply participate and follow along without really understanding the history.
I'm married myself, and I've been to a few Thai weddings in my time. But of course, if we want to know the truth about Sin Sod, the best people to ask are Thai people themselves. So for this post, to make sure my understanding is accurate, I enlisted a couple of Thai friends to help me stay on point.
Before I begin, I am not by any means saying that the information in this post is entirely definitive or one hundred percent historically factual.
However, what I can say is that the information is the experience of myself and two Thai people, both educated and well-versed in their own culture.
Contents
What Is Sin Sod?
Sin Sod is paid to the bride's parents. It is a repayment for the investment they have put into raising their daughter, and also for the loss incurred by their daughter not being readily available to support them anymore.
It is also symbolic of the groom's ability to be able to financially take care of the bride.
Sin Sod is a very significant part of the Thai marriage tradition, and something most families take seriously. However, not all families keep the money, and in the modern day it is often returned.
The Three Components of the “Thai Dowry”
To break the meaning down further, there are generally three reasons for the payment of Sin Sod, as follows:
1. Traditionally, the eldest unmarried daughter takes care of her parents until she gets married, and therefore the Sin Sod in some respects replaces that income for the parents. As you might know, it is common for a single Thai woman to send a portion of her salary to her parents each month.
This usually stops once she is married and has her children to care for.
So, as you can imagine, for parents with no pension plan and little savings, the Sin Sod is a much-needed payday.
Richer families, who don't need the money, usually return the money because, quite simply, they don’t need it. For them, Sin Sod is more about showing status.
2. Once a woman has been married, and/or has kids, the structure of Thai society makes it very hard for her to find a man of decent stature. Therefore, the Sin Sod acts as a sort of insurance in the event that the husband leaves and doesn't offer post-separation financial support.
The bottom line is, if a woman finds herself back living with her parents as a single mother, the Sin Sod insures that there will be some money/land in the family to support the family.
Thai society also dictates that the older a Thai woman gets the harder it becomes for her to find a job, let alone a well-paid one. So again, should she find herself alone in the future, at least the family will have some money put by for some inevitably rainy years ahead.
As you can see, marriage is actually somewhat of a risk for a young woman.
3. Where poorer families are concerned, Sin Sod is considered repayment for the money invested in their daughter. Many families sell land, borrow money and generally go without to put their kids through university, or in some cases to simply put food on the table.
The Sin Sod is essentially a repayment for that investment. The amount paid for Sin Sod could be considered relative to the sacrificial cost of bringing up the child – thus the reason it is often referred to as payment for the “mother's milk”.
What Sin Sod Isn't
Some refer to Sin Sod as a dowry, but to be clear, you are not buying a woman or approaching her family to buy her.
The Western-centric viewpoint that Sin Sod equates to the purchasing of a Thai bride is completely incorrect.
To fully understand the tradition, I think it pays (pardon the pun) to put the word “dowry” out of your mind, not least because any suggestion to your future in-laws that you are purchasing their daughter will be very offensive.
Who Pays Sin Sod?
Any man marrying a Thai woman is expected to pay Sin Sod.
The amount is usually agreed between the two families. Where a foreigner's parents aren't present, the duty falls on him to ask the family how much they expect.
Who Doesn’t Pay Sin Sod?
In the modern day, many families don’t expect Sin Sod, and many will tell the boyfriend that they don’t want any money. Indeed, many young Thai women are now rejecting the tradition because of its outdated meaning.
However, it is very rare that money isn’t shown at the wedding, albeit that it might be returned.
It should be noted that to expect the money back, or to ask for it back, is unacceptable. One will be offered it back if that is to be the case.
Also note that you may not be required to pay Sin Sod if the woman you are marrying has been married before. See the section below for more details.
How Much Should You Pay for Sin Sod?
Historically this has (generally) depended on six factors, as listed and discussed below:
- Family Name
- Education
- Prior Marital Status
- Dependents
- Employment
- Age
1. Family Name
If your girlfriend is from a well-to-do family, you could be looking at a fair lump sum. However, in this situation the money will most likely be for show and returned to you after the wedding.
2. Education
If your girlfriend is university educated or beyond, then it is likely that you will be looking at a minimum of around 300,000 Baht. This is a low-moderate amount by modern-day Thai standards.
For example, a friend at my girlfriend’s workplace is soon to marry a Thai lady of a high-school level education and he is paying 200,000 Baht. His salary is approximately 30,000 per month.
3. Prior Marital Status
If your girlfriend has been married before then you should pay less. You might argue – on grounds of tradition – that you shouldn’t be paying at all. However, as a respectful gesture, you should offer something.
Remember that marriage is intended to happen once in Thai culture, and therefore importance is emphasized on marrying for the first time.
Unlike second and third marriages in the west, which may be seen as equally as important and “true love” matches, in Thailand they are not that much of a big deal. Celebrity second and third marriages are the exception to this rule.
4. Dependents
If your girlfriend has kids, tradition dictates that you should pay less.
This stems from the age-old thinking that the woman is tainted in some way, already given to another man, so to speak.
You will become responsible for another man’s seed, and for that you shouldn’t be paying for the privilege.
5. Employment
In terms of a woman's employment, it's hierarchical and usually correlates with education and earnings. For example, you'd pay/show more to marry a banker than a cleaner.
6. Age
Age is a contentious and quite horrible issue when it comes to Sin Sod.
I mean, when ex childhood superstar singer Tata Young, at almost 40 years old married Prame, the son of the FairTex boxing brand owner, she commanded 100 million Baht Sin Sod.
But for a 40-year-old woman from a poor rural family and a few kids in tow, it's unlikely that more than 200,000 Baht would be on offer.
That said, the type of guys such a woman would have access to wouldn't be able to afford more than that anyway.
But who knows, occasionally a rich man does fall for a poorer woman in good old classist Thailand, and to show his wealth he would no doubt slap down a hefty sin sod.
Age comes fairly low down on the list, though, and Sin Sod is generally decided by status, family wealth, family name and accomplishment/education of the female in question.
Want to know what I think you should pay? Leave your circumstances in the comments section and I'll give you my estimate!
My Girlfriend Is Asking For Too Much!
Many foreigners find themselves in this position, and it isn’t necessarily that your girlfriend is trying to con you, more so that she is trying to secure higher face for her family, and in some cases to elevate her family's wealth.
Face is everything in Thai society. To marry a foreigner with a Sin Sod of less than 200,000 Baht would be quite a loss of face – not just for her but also for you!
The fact that she is marrying a foreigner will mean tongues start wagging in the village.
So when you say:
“What! No way! I am not paying to marry you”
Or you announce a payment less than what an average Thai guy earning 10-15k a month would pay, you get branded a “Farang kee-nock” (literally translated as bird shit foreigner, but refers to a poor, lower class foreigner), or “Keniiow” (stingy).
The folks in the village will have a good laugh:
“Why is she marrying a foreigner when he can’t afford to pay anymore than one of us folk”?
Yes, unfortunately most Thais believe, as many westerners do, that Thai women only marry foreigners for financial security, unless of course the Thai woman is richer or as wealthy as the foreigner.
Ask Her Parents
Anyway, don't take your girlfriend’s word for it, because the tradition is that you are supposed to ask the mother and father for the amount they want. It is not for the woman to tell the man what she wants. So arrange to meet with the parents and politely ask them what they expect.
They will probably say one of two things:
1. “Oh no, mai pen rai. We don’t want anything”.
2. “It's up to you”.
The first answer doesn’t mean you say, “Okay, great”, and go and buy a new car instead.
By answering in this way they are exercising their “grengjai”. They are being polite.
What they actually mean is:
“Tell us what you WANT to pay, and you will be able to tell by our body language whether we think it’s okay or not”.
So basically you need to make out you really want to pay. As you can see, this all falls in nicely with the non-confrontational Thai style.
The second answer means, “What do you want to pay… but don’t insult me”!
*It should be noted that some families might genuinely want nothing at all.
Will You Get Your Money Back?
Chances are that you might, actually. Though don't expect it.
Interestingly, there was a poll Pantip, the popular Thai website, that surveyed a number of readers, asking whether their families returned the money.
48 out of 75 families said they returned the Money. Ten families returned only some of the money. And 17 families didn’t return any money.
All This Talk of Money Seems So Shallow!
Yes, and for the most part it is.
Sin Sod is largely about face.
“Look at my daughter, she went to university and married a good man with a good job”.
Or even, “Look at my daughter, she didn’t go to university, but she is so beautiful and hardworking that she married a lovely rich foreign guy”.
As a foreigner, you may feel like you are buying your girlfriend and have become a victim of the old “Thailand ATM” syndrome. And depending on the circumstances, that could be the case.
But if you're in a secure, genuine relationship, you need to forget what the misinformed barstool gossips say and consider your girlfriend and the culture. And yes, that's right, she too needs to consider your wallet.
Like it or not, Sin Sod is a big part of Thai culture, and, as soon as a Thai woman announces marriage, the big question on everyone's lips is, “How much Sin Sod“?
Why?
Because Sin Sod is a reflection of her and her family and you and your family.
A Thai woman lives to make her family proud, to show the other villagers that they are a good family, that they are to be respected, and that they are climbing the social scale.
I Feel I'm Compromising My Western Culture
I hear you.
I come from a culture where the woman’s father is supposed to pay all the wedding costs, though it’s more a 50-50 thing in the modern day.
But think about it like this: Your girlfriend has probably already sacrificed many of her cultural traditions to accommodate you in her life. Living with you and sleeping with you before marriage are two of those sacrifices.
Without you knowing it, she will have been the talk of her village for living with you without being married – this reflects badly on her family.
Don’t forget that you chose her as your girlfriend, and with all due respect, before getting involved with a woman from another culture, you really should understand the culture first.
On an emotional level, you need to consider that just like every Western girl dreams of a white wedding to make her daddy proud, the majority of Thai women grow up dreaming of marrying in their home town and making their parents proud with a respectable Sin Sod, and in turn elevating the family face.
The way I see it is this: An average wedding in the UK costs £20,000. So if you pay £4,000 – £6,000 to marry your Thai girlfriend in a village ceremony that costs no more than £2,000, you still save a whopping £12,000!
That said, in the UK, you get gifts and money from your girlfriend’s family, so that does offset some of the cost.
You also get money in Thailand. Guests put money in a box on their way in. We clocked up about 15,000 Baht if I remember correctly. That was a pleasant surprise.
Truth be told, you aren’t likely to get much in return at any point unless you marry into a wealthy family, but then setting up home here is cheaper, as is taking care of a woman post-marriage.
In Summary
Sin Sod isn't a recent cultural scam made up to dupe foreigners out of their savings; it has been around for donkey's years and is an expected part of every Thai wedding, although not everyone adhere's to the tradition.
Is it outdated? Probably.
Are some Thai brides using the tradition to extort older foreign men and secure a windfall for their family? A few. Where there is money to be made there is always someone seeking to exploit a situation.
In a nutshell, it is important for a foreign national marrying a Thai to understand this tradition, to know its symbolic meaning and what a fair Sin Sod is in a given circumstance.
That doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but whether you like it or not, marriage is about compromise – because it involves two people – so do your best to find some middle ground that makes both you and your partner feel comfortable.
Or, just call the whole thing off!
Feel free to pitch in with your experience. It would be really useful to know what married guys paid, or didn’t pay, and how the process was handled.
I would like to say a big thanks to Marisa and Noynar for contributing their cultural knowledge to help me write this post.
More Tips for Married Life
Improve Your Thai Skills:
Learning Thai makes life here easier and more fun. I use Thaipod101. It is free to get started & easy to use.
Send Money to Thailand:
Use Wise. It is fast, cheap, and gives you the market exchange rate. Me and the majority of my readers are using it.
Get Help with Pension or Investment Planning
Connect with my trusted, personal Independent Financial Advisor using this form
Last Updated on
Danny says
Dec 21, 2022 at 12:56 pm
Benjamin says
Mar 04, 2023 at 2:27 pm
Ken F says
I have to say I am also a bit concerned about the degree to which you seem to be testing your girlfriend. It's true that you should spend a lot of time together before getting married, and traveling together can definitely stress people out and bring out their true colors. Still, you should not be actively trying to make things as stressful as possible in order to test her. Furthermore, while it okay to test one's compatibility I never feel the need to test someone’s love. Of course, lately I have actually been thinking that in Thailand love is not necessarily a good thing. Thai women tend to be very insecure and when these girls fall in love they can become overly needy emotionally, and this can lead to some serious issues down the road. Even my current girlfriend is constantly having dreams at night that I cheated on her or abandoned her or changed my Line or social media status to single, etc. And sometimes if she cannot reach me for some reason she can freak out. She just has this totally irrational fear of losing me, which is crazy because, even if I were a cheater – which I am not – I never even come across any other women here who are nearly as desirable as her. I realize that her behavior is partly due to her extremely young age, but I have also seen older Thai women get this emotionally dependent as well when they fall in love. Anyway, I sometimes think it would be much better to have a Thai girlfriend who just really likes me a lot and who thinks I make a great boyfriend but who does not really fall head-over-heels in love - or at least someone who falls in love like an adult and not like a Jr. High School girl with a bad crush.
In any case, I wish you two the best of luck with everything.
Mar 05, 2023 at 12:31 pm
Francisco says
Mar 08, 2023 at 11:15 pm
TheThailandLife says
Mar 08, 2023 at 11:33 pm
David says
I have been there with an ex. I was so lonely and in need for some support and affection that I started letting her off the hook way too much without putting my foot down which of course ended in a emotional disaster for me that took me 4-5 years to recover. It is really a bad idea when you ditch rationality and you go by emotion only. Instinctual responses that we feel aren't a sufficient to determine if one is good for us. I wish I had realized this in my 20's and saved myself the pain I went through by "following my heart" without thinking.
I wish I could find a nice thai lady and eventually bring her home. It is not only that I wish that but I actually need a partner in my life as am really deteriorating being alone all the time and I believe many can relate to this feeling. At the same time I am not going to accept anything imposed on me without prior explanation and justification. Guys, do not become submissive to your detriment just because you are very lonely and want someone, it will end up in disaster for you. Always think about what you feel and why, don't just go by feelings and emotional needs.
Oct 11, 2022 at 4:38 am
TheThailandLife says
Oct 11, 2022 at 4:45 am
Ken F says
Another big part of the problem is that men come to Thailand after a failed relationship back home and they somehow think that things are going to magically be different over here. The causes of bad relationships are all internal, not external, so changing your environment (moving to Thailand) is not going to change the types of relationships you are having. Only changing yourself can do that.
As for these guys who think they are being “scammed” because their girlfriend's family is asking too high a sinsod, all I can say is this is absurd. It would only be classified as a scam if the girl had no intention of marrying the guy or staying married to him and she was doing the same thing with multiple men. Traditionally the sinsod amount is determined by factors and qualities that Thai society values in a potential bride. But now we have all these Westeners in Thailand who highly value the types of women that Thai men might not value. So, in my opinion, in such a case the parents are well within their rights to ask for a higher sinsod than they would ask of a Thai man – although not absurdly high obviously. I am actually thinking of marrying my current Thai girlfriend and if I do I will not insult her parents by low-balling them on the sinsod. She is funny, adventurous, educated (still in college), and absolutely gorgeous so I will make my offer accordingly - even though my retirement income is laughably small. I know that she could very easily find a guy who is younger, better looking, and has A LOT more money than me so I am very thankful that she fell in love with me. Although in truth I sometimes worry that the fact she is so much in love, combined with her very young age, is causing her to not think things out and I worry that a year or two down the road she might come to her senses and regret her decision.
Oct 27, 2022 at 2:07 pm
David says
I concur with your statements. Loneliness is only one factor but I would argue the main one that would get someone in a position to be used and abused. I would also add that what's important isn't so much the fact that you are lonely but why you are lonely.
You mentioned that are you on your retirement income so I would imagine you are 60+? and your gf is early 20's if she's still in college? If we are talking about an age difference of 30-40 years I would encourage you to be very vigilant of her real motives. At the same time she may not have any bad intentions and genuinely be into you but as she ages out of her "teens" she might have second thoughts and you definitely do not want to end up emotionally ruined just because someone took an immature decision not knowing what she's getting into. Who in his retirement would not want a young and beautiful wife? Most of us just be very careful as this is a high reward high risk case. Personally I wouldn't risk it. My max age range would be 20 years.
The fact that one takes someone out of an impoverished state and improves her life tenfold should be enough of a "sin sod" gesture to the family. In addition the thai lady now in a new country she can get a job and support her parents in a way that previously wouldn't have been able to. All these and more should satisfy a thai family and in my opinion they should not get hanged up on thai customs unless they wanna leech a foreigner.
Oct 27, 2022 at 4:25 pm
Ken F says
As for what you said about the Sin Sod, part of me naturally agrees with that while the other part thinks that going along with it is the only respectable thing to do. As for my girlfriend, she actually does not really believe in Sin Sod either apparently, as she thinks more like a western woman (one of the things I love about her). In fact, even though she loves her parents she said that she did not want to give all that money to them when I told her how much it would likely cost. She would rather keep it for us (she may have been half kidding). But I still think they should get something and I don’t want to cause problems between her and her family by not paying. And as Peter has already pointed out, the average wedding in the USA would likely cost a lot more than I will have to pay her parents in Sin Sod. And unlike my parents and siblings, who have all been married and divorced multiple times, I have never been married and so have avoided those costs up to this point in my life. Anyway, although this girl and I are remarkably compatible in almost every way, and we make each other laugh constantly every day I sometimes do worry that she is too deeply in love at this point. I worry because people who are that much in love are not always thinking clearly. But we will get all that sorted out long before deciding to get married and will determine if it is real sustainable love or just a schoolgirl crush.
As for everyone wanting to have a beautiful wife, I suppose I am no different. In fact, all my family and friends think I am WAY too picky when it comes to finding women I’m attracted to. And I seem to get even pickier with age. But what they probably don’t realize is that I am even more picky when it comes to personality. Even the most beautiful woman in the world means nothing to me if she does not have the right personality for me.
Oct 31, 2022 at 6:02 pm
Francisco says
Mar 09, 2023 at 7:40 am
Francisco- marte says
Jan 04, 2023 at 11:32 am
TheThailandLife says
Jan 04, 2023 at 11:00 pm
Francisco says
Mar 03, 2023 at 11:45 pm
Willam Baker says
Jan 04, 2023 at 11:17 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 05, 2023 at 5:47 pm
David says
The fact that you will change her life and enable her to come to a more prosperous country where she can stay, work and earn enough to support her parents (even if at the end the marriage doesn't work out) this should be viewed as being satisfactory to say the least by her parents and if they insist in keeping the money from sinsod then they are short sighted if not intentionally gold digging and should be avoided.
Jan 05, 2023 at 6:11 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jan 05, 2023 at 6:15 pm
Francisco says
Mar 03, 2023 at 11:50 pm
Francisco says
Mar 08, 2023 at 11:18 pm
opey says
Is there wedding necklaces that Thai woman want? I know the ring will come but there are so many things to wonder about with Thai women.
We have been talking for over a year now and would like to move forward but not sure how i will be received?
Sep 09, 2022 at 10:42 pm
William Baker says
They will usually ask for a certain weight in gold.
Just the mother. If there are to be discussions on sin sod with the mother then she may have another family member join the talks to help.
Everything about tge wedding and after as far as where the mother will go once married. Dont be surprised if the mothers to live with you.
Sep 10, 2022 at 7:05 pm
opey says
Sep 12, 2022 at 8:11 am
John says
Aug 24, 2022 at 6:19 am
TheThailandLife says
Aug 24, 2022 at 6:54 pm
Nosh says
Her parents were okay with it as the real riches are in heaven. But some relatives were skeptical and told everyone my wife would be my slave and that we wouldn't take care of the family, etc.
We didn't care about what the relatives said because we don't care much about tradition. Much more about demonstrating who we are through our life with Jesus.
So no payment was required.
Jul 23, 2022 at 8:11 pm
Brian Smith says
Any advice is greatly appreciated
Jul 15, 2022 at 6:40 am
TheThailandLife says
Jul 15, 2022 at 4:13 pm
Francisco says
Mar 08, 2023 at 11:31 pm
Ben says
Jul 08, 2022 at 8:41 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 08, 2022 at 9:14 pm
Ben says
Jul 15, 2022 at 5:17 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 15, 2022 at 5:38 pm
Ben says
Jul 15, 2022 at 7:08 pm
TheThailandLife says
Jul 15, 2022 at 8:04 pm
Francisco says
Mar 05, 2023 at 8:05 pm
peripateticthai says
I came across this site looking up this whole 'Sin Sod' thing. After pushing things off for over a decade, my husband and I will have to go through with a traditional wedding ceremony in Thailand next year. We already had a wedding etc. a long time ago in the US that my in-laws hosted and they helped us fix up our first home.
We just recently had a sit-down with my Thai parents regarding the 'Sin-Sod' part of the ceremony, I figure maybe I can add my 2c on the topic.
1) The 'Sin-Sod' is highly symbolic. By that, I mean it can be open to interpretation when it comes to the amount and what it entails.
2) Although it's often talked about after the event and people throw around 6, 7 or sometimes 8-9 figures, they're usually overblown. The amount can refer to the total 'perceived' value of the various things combined. e.g. investment portfolio, asset class objects, other signs of support (not necessarily financial) from the groom's side of the family. In our case, for example, my parents accepted the value of our first home in the US, the fact that my in-laws hosted our US wedding, and that they already helped out with fixing up our house as 'Sin-Sod' of priceless value!
3) My parents perceive these gestures as indicative that my husband's side of the family is as willing as they (my parents) are to support us if needs arise. To them, that's essentially what a 'Sin-Sod' is--a symbolic grand gesture.
4) Sensible families wouldn't be suggesting something they can't reciprocate. The 'face' thing is real. Also, whatever the agreed upon 'Sin-Sod' amounts to, it is usually gifted to the couple (kind of like wedding gifts or registry in the US). It's not unheard of that the bride's family may want to recognize the generous gestures of the groom's family by gifting the couple with something similar in value as well.
TL;DR: It's symbolic. Non-cash 'Sin-Sod' can be negotiated. Genuine efforts and grand gestures go a long way.
Jun 25, 2022 at 8:17 am
Rob says
Jun 26, 2022 at 6:37 am
Deen says
Enjoyed reading your thoughts on Sin Sot.
I actually was married to a Thai woman 20 years..I was told one day before we married in Thailand that I was to pay sinsot and give gold. (Tong Mun?)
Caused a bit of strife but ended up coming to an agreement. To be honest I can't even remember what I paid back then. Ended up divorcing anyway
Fast forward to today..
Going to marry another Thai woman.
She is 50 with 2 adult kids . Not a alot of education. No job and I am already supporting her.
I may be buying a house from her sister in Thailand . Since I have 2 adult step kids who have dual citizenship in Thailand and the US the house will be in her name and my step kids.
I have asked my fiance and her sister how much sinsot I should pay. I got the up to you answer.
How much do you think I should pay?
And how much Gold (Tong Mun?) Should I give?
Appreciate any insight you can give me.
Thanks
Jun 24, 2022 at 7:30 am
TheThailandLife says
Jun 24, 2022 at 6:08 pm
Craig Fergusson says
May 31, 2022 at 1:08 pm
Rob says
May 31, 2022 at 5:39 pm
Craig Fergusson says
May 21, 2023 at 1:30 am
Erik says
May 31, 2022 at 9:28 pm
Craig Fergusson says
May 21, 2023 at 1:26 am