You will find a huge amount of misleading information online regarding Sin Sod, and conflicting experiences can be found plastered all over forums and blogs.
So, when a foreigner wants to marry his Thai girlfriend and the inevitable subject of Sin Sod arises, it is no surprise that he becomes confused over what he should be paying and why he is expected to pay it.
Part of the problem is that Thai women often don’t explain the concept of Sin Sod very well, which isn’t at all surprising, considering that for them it’s a standard tradition and an age-old part of Thai culture.
They just get on with it. It's normal. They've seen it a hundred times at weddings since childhood. And like traditions the world over, some people simply participate and follow along without really understanding the history.
I'm married myself, and I've been to a few Thai weddings in my time. But of course, if we want to know the truth about Sin Sod, the best people to ask are Thai people themselves. So for this post, to make sure my understanding is accurate, I enlisted a couple of Thai friends to help me stay on point.
Before I begin, I am not by any means saying that the information in this post is entirely definitive or one hundred percent historically factual.
However, what I can say is that the information is the experience of myself and two Thai people, both educated and well-versed in their own culture.
Contents
What Is Sin Sod?
Sin Sod is paid to the bride's parents. It is a repayment for the investment they have put into raising their daughter, and also for the loss incurred by their daughter not being readily available to support them anymore.
It is also symbolic of the groom's ability to be able to financially take care of the bride.
Sin Sod is a very significant part of the Thai marriage tradition, and something most families take seriously. However, not all families keep the money, and in the modern day it is often returned.
The Three Components of the “Thai Dowry”
To break the meaning down further, there are generally three reasons for the payment of Sin Sod, as follows:
1. Traditionally, the eldest unmarried daughter takes care of her parents until she gets married, and therefore the Sin Sod in some respects replaces that income for the parents. As you might know, it is common for a single Thai woman to send a portion of her salary to her parents each month.
This usually stops once she is married and has her children to care for.
So, as you can imagine, for parents with no pension plan and little savings, the Sin Sod is a much-needed payday.
Richer families, who don't need the money, usually return the money because, quite simply, they don’t need it. For them, Sin Sod is more about showing status.
2. Once a woman has been married, and/or has kids, the structure of Thai society makes it very hard for her to find a man of decent stature. Therefore, the Sin Sod acts as a sort of insurance in the event that the husband leaves and doesn't offer post-separation financial support.
The bottom line is, if a woman finds herself back living with her parents as a single mother, the Sin Sod insures that there will be some money/land in the family to support the family.
Thai society also dictates that the older a Thai woman gets the harder it becomes for her to find a job, let alone a well-paid one. So again, should she find herself alone in the future, at least the family will have some money put by for some inevitably rainy years ahead.
As you can see, marriage is actually somewhat of a risk for a young woman.
3. Where poorer families are concerned, Sin Sod is considered repayment for the money invested in their daughter. Many families sell land, borrow money and generally go without to put their kids through university, or in some cases to simply put food on the table.
The Sin Sod is essentially a repayment for that investment. The amount paid for Sin Sod could be considered relative to the sacrificial cost of bringing up the child – thus the reason it is often referred to as payment for the “mother's milk”.
What Sin Sod Isn't
Some refer to Sin Sod as a dowry, but to be clear, you are not buying a woman or approaching her family to buy her.
The Western-centric viewpoint that Sin Sod equates to the purchasing of a Thai bride is completely incorrect.
To fully understand the tradition, I think it pays (pardon the pun) to put the word “dowry” out of your mind, not least because any suggestion to your future in-laws that you are purchasing their daughter will be very offensive.
Who Pays Sin Sod?
Any man marrying a Thai woman is expected to pay Sin Sod.
The amount is usually agreed between the two families. Where a foreigner's parents aren't present, the duty falls on him to ask the family how much they expect.
Who Doesn’t Pay Sin Sod?
In the modern day, many families don’t expect Sin Sod, and many will tell the boyfriend that they don’t want any money. Indeed, many young Thai women are now rejecting the tradition because of its outdated meaning.
However, it is very rare that money isn’t shown at the wedding, albeit that it might be returned.
It should be noted that to expect the money back, or to ask for it back, is unacceptable. One will be offered it back if that is to be the case.
Also note that you may not be required to pay Sin Sod if the woman you are marrying has been married before. See the section below for more details.
How Much Should You Pay for Sin Sod?
Historically this has (generally) depended on six factors, as listed and discussed below:
- Family Name
- Education
- Prior Marital Status
- Dependents
- Employment
- Age
1. Family Name
If your girlfriend is from a well-to-do family, you could be looking at a fair lump sum. However, in this situation the money will most likely be for show and returned to you after the wedding.
2. Education
If your girlfriend is university educated or beyond, then it is likely that you will be looking at a minimum of around 300,000 Baht. This is a low-moderate amount by modern-day Thai standards.
For example, a friend at my girlfriend’s workplace is soon to marry a Thai lady of a high-school level education and he is paying 200,000 Baht. His salary is approximately 30,000 per month.
3. Prior Marital Status
If your girlfriend has been married before then you should pay less. You might argue – on grounds of tradition – that you shouldn’t be paying at all. However, as a respectful gesture, you should offer something.
Remember that marriage is intended to happen once in Thai culture, and therefore importance is emphasized on marrying for the first time.
Unlike second and third marriages in the west, which may be seen as equally as important and “true love” matches, in Thailand they are not that much of a big deal. Celebrity second and third marriages are the exception to this rule.
4. Dependents
If your girlfriend has kids, tradition dictates that you should pay less.
This stems from the age-old thinking that the woman is tainted in some way, already given to another man, so to speak.
You will become responsible for another man’s seed, and for that you shouldn’t be paying for the privilege.
5. Employment
In terms of a woman's employment, it's hierarchical and usually correlates with education and earnings. For example, you'd pay/show more to marry a banker than a cleaner.
6. Age
Age is a contentious and quite horrible issue when it comes to Sin Sod.
I mean, when ex childhood superstar singer Tata Young, at almost 40 years old married Prame, the son of the FairTex boxing brand owner, she commanded 100 million Baht Sin Sod.
But for a 40-year-old woman from a poor rural family and a few kids in tow, it's unlikely that more than 200,000 Baht would be on offer.
That said, the type of guys such a woman would have access to wouldn't be able to afford more than that anyway.
But who knows, occasionally a rich man does fall for a poorer woman in good old classist Thailand, and to show his wealth he would no doubt slap down a hefty sin sod.
Age comes fairly low down on the list, though, and Sin Sod is generally decided by status, family wealth, family name and accomplishment/education of the female in question.
Want to know what I think you should pay? Leave your circumstances in the comments section and I'll give you my estimate!
My Girlfriend Is Asking For Too Much!
Many foreigners find themselves in this position, and it isn’t necessarily that your girlfriend is trying to con you, more so that she is trying to secure higher face for her family, and in some cases to elevate her family's wealth.
Face is everything in Thai society. To marry a foreigner with a Sin Sod of less than 200,000 Baht would be quite a loss of face – not just for her but also for you!
The fact that she is marrying a foreigner will mean tongues start wagging in the village.
So when you say:
“What! No way! I am not paying to marry you”
Or you announce a payment less than what an average Thai guy earning 10-15k a month would pay, you get branded a “Farang kee-nock” (literally translated as bird shit foreigner, but refers to a poor, lower class foreigner), or “Keniiow” (stingy).
The folks in the village will have a good laugh:
“Why is she marrying a foreigner when he can’t afford to pay anymore than one of us folk”?
Yes, unfortunately most Thais believe, as many westerners do, that Thai women only marry foreigners for financial security, unless of course the Thai woman is richer or as wealthy as the foreigner.
Ask Her Parents
Anyway, don't take your girlfriend’s word for it, because the tradition is that you are supposed to ask the mother and father for the amount they want. It is not for the woman to tell the man what she wants. So arrange to meet with the parents and politely ask them what they expect.
They will probably say one of two things:
1. “Oh no, mai pen rai. We don’t want anything”.
2. “It's up to you”.
The first answer doesn’t mean you say, “Okay, great”, and go and buy a new car instead.
By answering in this way they are exercising their “grengjai”. They are being polite.
What they actually mean is:
“Tell us what you WANT to pay, and you will be able to tell by our body language whether we think it’s okay or not”.
So basically you need to make out you really want to pay. As you can see, this all falls in nicely with the non-confrontational Thai style.
The second answer means, “What do you want to pay… but don’t insult me”!
*It should be noted that some families might genuinely want nothing at all.
Will You Get Your Money Back?
Chances are that you might, actually. Though don't expect it.
Interestingly, there was a poll Pantip, the popular Thai website, that surveyed a number of readers, asking whether their families returned the money.
48 out of 75 families said they returned the Money. Ten families returned only some of the money. And 17 families didn’t return any money.
All This Talk of Money Seems So Shallow!
Yes, and for the most part it is.
Sin Sod is largely about face.
“Look at my daughter, she went to university and married a good man with a good job”.
Or even, “Look at my daughter, she didn’t go to university, but she is so beautiful and hardworking that she married a lovely rich foreign guy”.
As a foreigner, you may feel like you are buying your girlfriend and have become a victim of the old “Thailand ATM” syndrome. And depending on the circumstances, that could be the case.
But if you're in a secure, genuine relationship, you need to forget what the misinformed barstool gossips say and consider your girlfriend and the culture. And yes, that's right, she too needs to consider your wallet.
Like it or not, Sin Sod is a big part of Thai culture, and, as soon as a Thai woman announces marriage, the big question on everyone's lips is, “How much Sin Sod“?
Why?
Because Sin Sod is a reflection of her and her family and you and your family.
A Thai woman lives to make her family proud, to show the other villagers that they are a good family, that they are to be respected, and that they are climbing the social scale.
I Feel I'm Compromising My Western Culture
I hear you.
I come from a culture where the woman’s father is supposed to pay all the wedding costs, though it’s more a 50-50 thing in the modern day.
But think about it like this: Your girlfriend has probably already sacrificed many of her cultural traditions to accommodate you in her life. Living with you and sleeping with you before marriage are two of those sacrifices.
Without you knowing it, she will have been the talk of her village for living with you without being married – this reflects badly on her family.
Don’t forget that you chose her as your girlfriend, and with all due respect, before getting involved with a woman from another culture, you really should understand the culture first.
On an emotional level, you need to consider that just like every Western girl dreams of a white wedding to make her daddy proud, the majority of Thai women grow up dreaming of marrying in their home town and making their parents proud with a respectable Sin Sod, and in turn elevating the family face.
The way I see it is this: An average wedding in the UK costs £20,000. So if you pay £4,000 – £6,000 to marry your Thai girlfriend in a village ceremony that costs no more than £2,000, you still save a whopping £12,000!
That said, in the UK, you get gifts and money from your girlfriend’s family, so that does offset some of the cost.
You also get money in Thailand. Guests put money in a box on their way in. We clocked up about 15,000 Baht if I remember correctly. That was a pleasant surprise.
Truth be told, you aren’t likely to get much in return at any point unless you marry into a wealthy family, but then setting up home here is cheaper, as is taking care of a woman post-marriage.
In Summary
Sin Sod isn't a recent cultural scam made up to dupe foreigners out of their savings; it has been around for donkey's years and is an expected part of every Thai wedding, although not everyone adhere's to the tradition.
Is it outdated? Probably.
Are some Thai brides using the tradition to extort older foreign men and secure a windfall for their family? A few. Where there is money to be made there is always someone seeking to exploit a situation.
In a nutshell, it is important for a foreign national marrying a Thai to understand this tradition, to know its symbolic meaning and what a fair Sin Sod is in a given circumstance.
That doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but whether you like it or not, marriage is about compromise – because it involves two people – so do your best to find some middle ground that makes both you and your partner feel comfortable.
Or, just call the whole thing off!
Feel free to pitch in with your experience. It would be really useful to know what married guys paid, or didn’t pay, and how the process was handled.
I would like to say a big thanks to Marisa and Noynar for contributing their cultural knowledge to help me write this post.
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anonymous123 says
There are also the reports of asking for family assistance on a monthly basis, and there is just no way to know whether this will happen or not. (it's happened to me twice, but when things were still in the online stage, so no harm done).
As to the running away, that could be the case if we were (also) married in my country of residence and not just in Thailand.
I wish the Thai government would just legislate a flowchart with which woman deserves what Sin Sod for any given family constellation, and it wouldn't feel so much like haggling over a kilo of fish at the market.
Nov 14, 2014 at 5:02 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 14, 2014 at 10:10 pm
anonymous123 says
So I stalled and said I felt uncomfortable and would like her to tell me how much she expects.
I'm very much a lover of all things Thai(and Asian), but the whole Sin Sod idea, plus the emotional blackmail that may lie ahead should one of her family members fall ill, plus the non-negligible chance that she might run away with half my assets shortly after the marriage, make me reconsider this whole thing.
So here I am, one whole weekend to go, and it's awkward to say the least haha. What I'm planning to do is sit down with my girl and see how she feels about it, without mum present.
See how it goes.
Nov 14, 2014 at 4:08 pm
TheThailandLife says
Nov 14, 2014 at 4:54 pm
Boris says
Dec 09, 2015 at 4:18 pm
Guest says
The tradition in the west is that her parents pay for the wedding and the couple get a good boost to start their life together. If they are to start a family, theres a need to build a good platform to raise healthy kids of their own. If you live in north america, should you and your spouse follow the traditions of the west?
Buddhist speak of non materialism but no matter how you paint it, to even display the Sinsod is materialistic to a high degree. The fact that a lot of the time the Sinsod is not owned by the groom but it is insinuated to save face is not shallow and vain?
Is it a good way to open a relationship with your in-laws by them asking you for money?
If she has a dad and brothers then how hard are they working and can they not support their wives and daughters?
If you had a daughter, would the love of her man be what is important to you? Or to monetize it and negotiate it to see how much she is worth?
And finally, A mothers breast milk… Symbolic or not.
If anything is free on the earth, should it not be a baby’s milk from the mothers breast?
Nov 14, 2014 at 2:11 am
TheThailandLife says
That's not to say some Thais don't follow Buddhist precepts, but it really is a complex, rather "Thainess" version of Buddhism that the average Thai adheres to.
Moreover, culture has a tendency to override/reinterpret religion. For example, I doubt Jesus would agree with carrying a gun, yet more than a third of "Christian" American households own a gun.
I think what one must realise when living in Thailand, and especially when marrying a Thai person, is that this is a classist society. While it adopts a capitalist monetary system, Thailand is very much still a feudal system, ruled by an aristocracy and elite class. People are judged on wealth, status, family descent, education, region of birth, etc. Society is generally organised based on these things. And this is therefore reflected and demonstrated through engagements, weddings and even funerals.
Of course, not every Thai lives by these ideals, and many aren't interested in Sin Sod, saving/showing face, elevating status, etc. I have a Thai friend who married a foreigner and wasn't the slightest bit interested in having a sin sod. But by and large society still works this way, which is why when Thais meet each other they first establish of what social class a person is, because that will dictate the interaction and relationship going forward - in terms of how address one another and even whether or not they will establish a friendship.
This is why I always encourage people to read up on Thai history and culture. Because by understanding the history you are able to better understand how Thai society works. And it also means you won't find yourself misunderstanding and getting angry by sin sod, when for a Thai, this is just a normal part of a wedding ceremony.
Nov 14, 2014 at 3:09 pm
John Sweden says
One thing i know from experience is that the thais tend to bend the reality, in this case the traditions to gain their own needs.
Me and my GF lives in Sweden since 3years and had a very turbulent first year. One subject that came up and kept coming up the first two months was the sin sods be or not to be. My opinion has always been BIG NO TO SIN SOD. It´s buried so deep within my mentality that i would rather stab myself then lower my values down to the show off for neighbors/saving family face level. No i don´t respect the thai tradition in this case. Just because it´s a tradition doesn´t means it´s a good one! Keep in mind that we do live in Sweden and intend to do that until we retire or for the rest of our lives.
As a matter of fact i don´t want to get married at all. Why marry when it´s just a show off and an un holy alliance that in reality doesn´t mean much.
I might change my mind about the marriage thing in the future but today it´s not among the priorities in our life. If we get kids things might change...
Intresting thing is that my GF has adopted most of my opinions now. I think that one big reason is that she is no longer living in Thailand. She can nowadays think for herself, analyze and speak her opinion with her own words (in 3 languages) without "losing face" if someone has better arguments or if she realizes that she was wrong.
Back to sin sod.
We live in Sweden.
My GF has a university degree and had a good job when we met.
It is my money. Means exactly that. It is my money!
Her family is from the north.
They do not need our support.
I have made it clear that i will support the day it´s needed, if she´s not working and making money by herself by then.
If we build or invest anything in Thailand it will be her property if we brake up.
She will get the benefits of the swedish welfare system, and that´s worth much more then a sin sod.
As a matter of fact she´s studying right now in Sweden and the school costs me 100€ / year - Allmost for free.
This is our life.
Her family is ok with everything. As a matter of fact they often support me when we disagree in a subject.
From a faring point of view a marriage with a thai is often a lose or lose situation. I am now talking about the poor or the lower middle class citizens.
Adding a sin sod to this is a scam unless it is not made very clear that you won´t be asked to finance the familys life in the future.
Reality is that you will be emotionally blackmailed the day someone gets sick and there´s no money to pay the hospital bill.
Either way, you lose!
This is strictly from an economic point of view.
Nov 13, 2014 at 9:58 am
Mr. says
Having said that, I really respect and love many aspects of Thai Culture..
My strong opinions also brings me i conflict with my own culture from time to time.. so this is not a case of my euro-centrisism blinding me.. If my Thai girlfriend lived in Norway, I would not marry her at all.. I am not religious, and my countries laws are accomodating to the fact that many people think like me.. There is therefore getting increasingly less important to marry for tax reasons or other practical reasons..
There is however one exception.. and that is bringing a GF to Norway.. (Almost?) impossible to get legal papers in order if the foreign partner is not married to the local resident.
So I have fallen for this girl.. and she wants to move to my country and start a life for me. Unfortunately this means I have to marry her... She is a modern woman, and she actually agrees with my views on SinSod..
I have had lengthy conversations about her father.. to explain important differences between our cultures and legal/practical organization.. He understands that my "wealth" is bound up in the country I live: with high taxation, free health care, free education etc..
After I have paid taxes and mortgages on my condo - I don't have a lot money left.. My income (after tax) is infact not that different from my GF's dad. But unlike him, I can't put aside a lot of money in a savings account, because living costs here are completely different from his and because the economic system I live under makes sure that the taxations I pay on both income and the goods I buy is made available for me for free, should I get cancer or other expensive-to-treat illnesses.
Her dad both thinks it is funny and is proud about driving a newer and more expensive car than me, but he also understand that should he get sick, there is no public system to compensate him for the business he loses, neither to pay expensive hospital bills.. so while he, if unlucky, might be forced to sell both his car and his house to cover medical bills, I would hardly be set back at all, should the same thing happen to me.
I have told him honestly that I despise the SinSod tradition, just like I despise some traditions in my own country.. and that it is simply out of the question to put a million bath on the table, unless it is for show only - and even that, I would not like. I think public displays of whealth to show of class is stupid and uncivilized - both when it happens in the west and in the east..
As I said, I like a lot of things about Thai culture... but this class-thing is something I despise with a passion.. We spent hundreds of years in the west to try our best to abolish it.. why should I embrace it when I come to Thailand? "You should not wai people of lower position than you"... well.. I don't consider anyone "lower" or "higher" than me. It's all bullshit to me.
BTW, not all Thais like this "class thing", and one of my best Thai friends in BKK says.. "I'll wai fucking everyone - my respect paid to my fellow Thai isn't tied up to their family name or the make of the car they drive"
I think I am lucky to have met a woman with parents who has a modern midset about these things.. if it had been any different, our future marriage would be in trouble.
I want to thank mr. TTT for an excellent blog! I think what you write on this page is very interesting and useful. Why I completely agree with you that no-one should marry across cultural boarders without knowing and tolerating the culture you marry into, at the same time no-one should compromise with their personal morality.
If you are not a fan of the Thai feudal class hierarchy, you should not help Thailand uphold this medieval tradition. The rationalization behind keeping up this tradition is all just empty rethorics. In my view it reflects a view upon women that is deeply sexist and is certainly also in-directly linked to the Thai culture of prostitution.. which is centuries older than what happens in the red-light districts aimed at falang tourists.
To "pay for the mothers milk" apply only to the female offspring of a family.. which stress the fact how women are seen as property. First she belongs to her parents, and as she marry, she belongs to her husband. If she is divorced her value as property is 'returned' to her family.. and now her Sin Sod is lowered if she re-marries, as a 'used' woman is considered less worth - her value is even lower if she has children.
How is SinSod related to prostitution? Not directly of course - any Thai will of course deny this from their cultural view-point - but indirectly it reflects an ancient view upon women as property with a value - a view that has existed (and still exists many places) in any and all cultures throughout history as far as I know.
The fact that a Sin Sod is estimated based on wether the girl is a virgin or not, wether she has had a BF or not, been married, have children and what social class she belongs too etc. is not only a marker for a class society, but also a marker for a deeply primitive collective sexism.
If I wanted to marry my GF according to Thai traditions, my parents would have to discuss Sin Sod with her parents - and if my parents were "good negotiators", they would respectfully bring up the fact that my GF was not a virgin, and was in a relationship before me - and according to tradition, hence bring the Sin Sod down. I am cringing just from thinking about it. The fact that I have slept around extensively and lived with a woman for 8 years prior to meeting my future wife.. would be of no importance at all..
Any way you look at this, it is blatant sexism.
A collegue married a woman from a poor Issan village in his early twenties. They have stayed together for 20 years soon, and live in Norway. He has bought farm land for his wife's family, and they travel there every year. Recently his wife told him about a discussion between her mother and the mother in the neighbouring farm. The two neighbour daughters were approaching adulthood, and their desperatly poor mother (who had a creepy brother living in BKK) was contemplating the following dilemma: Her brother could arrange "work" for the two girls - they would be offered a one-off sum for each of the girls, plus a monthly revenue from the income the girls would have as entertainers. Since the girls were known for their beauty well beyond the village borders, the mother were contemplating wether she should keep the daughters at home and hope they would bring in good Sin Sod, or "hire" them out for business - knowing that this would reduce their value when they married later.
The issue of Sin Sod is of course a complex matter. When falangs encounter it, they can deal with it in many different ways. Some will pay up with out blinking - not because they respect Thai culture - but simply because the money is not a big deal for them financially speaking. Some - like me - have moral issues, but - unlike me - they decide to be pragmatic about it and pay up. Others don't mind the tradition but struggle with the finances, as marrying abroad and bringing a wife home is costly to begin with - so they might even get into debt by credit financing their marriage/sin sod.
Then there is the guys like me, who might even not be looking to marry a Thai per se, but happens to fall in love with one, and then has to decide wether they should compromise with their personal ethics or not. Luckily, my GF does not care about these things - the only time she brings up marriage is when we discuss our future in Norway, VISA issues, and so forth. She is a modern and ambitous woman who is looking forward to continue her studies in Norway and pursuit a professional career of her own.
There is a somewhat tragic-comic perspective to this, and that has to do with the fact that an overwhelming part of those who bring home a wife from Thailand, also are customers of the sex industry. Furthermore, ALL of the Thai/Norwegian couples I have met, the wife comes from poor conditions in Isaan or other poverty-ridden parts of the North. If you find an Isaan or hill-tribe woman in Pattaya, BKK or Phuket, like these guys for the most part have done, you are most probably marrying a (former) prostitute.
What baffles me, is that a lot of these guys - happy to pay for sex - suddenly feels paying a sin sod is immoral, because "you can't buy real love". The fact is that most of these marriages has nothing whatsoever to do with "real love". An attractive young woman does not marry a middle-aged average-Joe plumber who doesn't even speak her language because of "real love". The world hardly ever swings this way. My guess is that at least 90% of the falang/thai marriages, in truth are stories about a westerner going to a third world country to buy a wife.
Let's be real. If these women were living next door to these wife-seeking guys, they wouldn't even look at them... not in a million years.
The women want a way out of poverty - and a Thai man of their same class cannot offer them that. Perhaps they are "tainted" from sex-work, or have a child from a former marriage. The men want a shapely, young wife... but in their own country they couldn't score a "shapely woman in her 20's or early 30's" if their life depended on it.
I am not passing moral judgement here - there are as many reasons for marriages as there are married couples in this world. And I am sure many thai/falang marriages turn out well - with real love and real trust as ingredients. But to think most of the falang/thai marriages is not about money from the very beginning, is to turn a blind eye to the real world. When guys who buy sex suddenly think paying for a sin sod is immoral, they have lost me.
I shared a table with a German guy once, and he was dealing with the family of a young woman he wanted to marry - "a wild animal in bed.. and she can cook too!", he let me know. However the main topic of our conversation was how much he hated her mother, who had asked for a 200.000 BTH sin sod - "like a fucking mamasan... it feels so... unromantic". Luckily the guy left my table before I acted on the strong urge to kick his teeth in.. but he had some "business to attend to up on soi 21". - Sounds romantic, I said. He missed my sarcasm and laughed "Indeed!" (- he would part with just about 1/20th of the sin sod in question on that night alone).
Either way you feel about SinSod, I think the key thing is open communication with the family of the woman you have fallen for. Whether you are comfortable with the tradition of sin sod or not, is up to anyone who finds himself in this situation.
A marriage is a big compromise, anyway - there is both give and take. Bringing a woman out of her country, away from her country, her family and friends, to a completely different language and culture is not anyone should take lightly. The issue of Sin Sod is after all small compared to the many other challenges you may encounter.
Most likely the person reading this blog live in/hail from a country that grants its inhabitants some sort of safety net when they get sick or old and need care. If I go bankrupt, I would have worries, but my family will be taken care of, my parents will receive good medical treatment if they were in need, a room in a free home for the aged when time comes, and even a publicly sponsored funeral if I am unable to pay.
In Thailand, there are almost no such security - no free medical services, no pensions, no public education beyond 6th grade, no nothing - so family is EVERYTHING. Unfortunally, many falangs fail to understand this... you can even read it in this comments section. They worry about the "emotional blackmail" that may occur, should a close family member back in Thailand need expensive medical treatment. No, mr. Selfcentered Ignorant Lowlife Bastard, this is not "emotional blackmail" - this is real, genuine worry for the people your future wife loves more than anyone in the world. Furthermore, by marrying a woman from a culture where Family is the safety net, it is her duty to help.
If you want a terrible marriage, a good recipy would be to marry a girl from a poor background in a country with no public "safety-net" - with the intentions not to contribute financially should her family need support for expensive medical care or any other desperate issue. "Emotional blackmail"?? - no wonder you guys need to go to a third world country to find a partner.
Apr 17, 2016 at 7:35 pm
TheThailandLife says
Apr 17, 2016 at 10:04 pm
Trent says
Oct 25, 2014 at 12:50 am
TheThailandLife says
Oct 26, 2014 at 1:47 pm
Trent says
She does live in Canada but her masters is from a Thai University she completed on-line. Don't think that makes a difference to them anyhow as they regard it as she's educated.
Her parents apparently are not asking for money as they say they don't care about the "show" or sin sod. So they prefer I show them that I can take care of their daughter and buying land and building a house means more to them to save face as the villagers will see that I am not a Keenoch. Therefore showing the money and getting it back doesn't seem to be an option for them.
My gf wants me to visit her village so I can see how they live. Basically, they keep asking her for $ cause the farms keep flooding. What my gf did tell me yesterday was that she's more interested in helping her mum as her first priority with upgrading or building them a new home. She didn't say I had to help but who knows what the intentions are.
You're absolutely right about showing her parents that I am capable of taking care of her. That's what the land and house is for. I don't have to build the house right away but at least offer to buy land in her name. You may be absolutely right that building a house was in her mind from the beginning. What I find hard to understand is why has she never, in 5 years, when I had helped her out with support and free living accommodations, was not ever clearly mentioned. It was always about her doing it on her own as she has always been very independent.
In the past when Sin Sod was discussed she always told me she didn't agree with it and that she would just get married in Canada and she was tired of sending money to the parents. Her parents do not waste money in any way. They've successfully invested their daughters money wisely.
As for marrying a foreigner and building a big house, she always did say that was not her intentions. She's happy with a very small home on her land.
It's really scary when you mention that unfortunately these women marry for money rather than love since she had always loved me greatly. It was just in the past few months that all these expectations came into play.
The problem in marrying for money rather than love is she, now being Americanized, can leave me for anyone else at any time if she married for money rather than love. This isn't putting much trust but I had this same conversation and she said that the Thai women marry just once and for life. Uhuh, right. I've seen differently. She may have been referring to her upbringing. Recently her aunt wrote me and found out I was her bf and is now saying that the minimum amount expected to give to her parents would be $2 million Baht. My gf laughed at it and said was none of her business.
I like what you said about it's not your intention to spend money to impress people and make fake friends. Apparently, he family isn't like that either as she tells me. But then again, why the pressure to buy land and build a home??
I would probably prefer you suggestion to "show" the villagers the money and agree to take it back and gift what I can afford or what I presume is sufficient but what would that amount be ? Obviously, from your note 2 to 300,000.00 baht would be an insult but if I bought the land first, say 5 to 10 rai that would cost around 10 to 15k u.s.
I can't answer why the parents don't tell the villagers that I was part of the acquisitions to help buy the 60 rai. After all, if she wasn't living rent free with me, she wouldn't be able to send that money home. She only made around $16 to 25k here in Canada.
She does want me to visit first to see if I would even like her village to live later on.
You summed it up well when you mentioned that "if" she does love me, she'll respect my position and come to an agreement that is fair". I can tell you that things have changed rapidly in the last 4 to 5 months and then the pressure and demands came about.
Thanks so much again for all your advice. You are pretty much on the ball with their thinking and are absolutely correct on what I read and how they feel. The question now becomes, how sincere is she and thinking I've known her well for so long I find it amazing how quickly things can change.
Did I mention she also said that if I bought the land we really didn't have to get married right away. That blew me away cause I told her don't you want to get married and she said it's every girl's dream and of course but doesn't want to pressure me.. lol
Thanks !!!
Trent.
Oct 28, 2014 at 3:12 am
TheThailandLife says
Nov 02, 2014 at 5:05 pm
Richy says
Could some1 pls tell me the exact process for marrying a thai girl. Do I have to go to Thailand first, sign papers then do the same here in the uk? I'm so confused! My lady is here in the uk on a holiday visa at the moment but are having issues about what to do next!
Many thanks
Oct 20, 2014 at 3:48 am
TheThailandLife says
Oct 20, 2014 at 12:45 pm
Mr X says
Oct 08, 2014 at 12:58 am
Ekachai says
There are many aspects to this history which the article is good to point out. Don't judge thailand and get angry because of our tradition. If you don't like it why marry with thai? Thank you. Ekachai.
Oct 04, 2014 at 4:02 pm
TheThailandLife says
Oct 20, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Winfred says
More and more people need to read this instead of the BS you find on ThaiVisa
Keep up the good work representing the REAL Thailand!
Aug 28, 2014 at 12:24 pm
TheThailandLife says
Yes, I'm sure that will be fine. 99% is better than 96.5% :)
Jul 09, 2014 at 12:46 pm